Multimedia Toolkit 2/Multimedia Toolkit 2.iso/imagine/text/archive.22

Text File | 1993-03-12 | 154.6 KB | 4,070 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE XXII
May 16 '92 - Jun. 6 '92

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

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Subject: IMAGINE MAILING LIST
Date: Sat, 16 May 92 13:33:00 CDT
From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard)

The New Imagine Mailing List   -
-------------------------------------------------------------------
version 1.0      last updated 05/14/92



Welcome to the New Imagine Mailing List.
This Mailing List is a followup to Steve Worley's original
Imagine Mailing List that he created at MIT.



About Imagine
--------------------
Imagine is a 3D modeling and rendering program with built-in
animation capabilities that was initially released on the Amiga
computer. It offered rendering and modeling capabilities that
existed previously only on high end machines at a cost far beyond
what was reasonable for normal mortals. It is a product of Impulse
Inc. which is located in Minnesota. Imagine was the natural evolution of
an earlier Amiga product from Impulse called Turbo Silver.
Both products have become mainstays in the many impressive and
envy inspiring animations and pictures that Amiga users use to
demonstrate their machines to both computer enthusiasts and
non-computer users. Imagine is also used for many commercial video
and personal applications. 3D scenes and objects can give virtually
any project a professional look if handled correctly.


About This List
----------------------
The Imagine Mailing List was created in January 1991 by Steve Worley
on a computer at MIT. For those of you not familiar with a Mailing List,
it works like this:
The Mailing List site contains a file of all the people who "subscribe" to
the List. When you mail a post to this account at the Site, the Site computer
merely echoes your post to everyone on that list. At this time, the Imagine
Mailing List consists of over 220 subscribers! Some of these "subscribers"
are actually networks or BBS's. That means that your post is echoed and
is then viewed by many hundreds of people!

The purpose of the Imagine Mailing List is for the discussion of Imagine
and related products. There are many professionals in many fields who read
this list as well as new users, so if you have a question...there is almost
certainly someone who can offer suggestions, or is having the same type of
problem and will offer help. There is no bad question. There is nothing that is
too elementary. Share your questions. We all will learn from it!

Naturally, while Imagine is the main thrust of the List, topics can vary
quite widely. 3D rendering in general, Imagine comparisons to other
products, video applications and Imagine interfacing to other products
are just a few of the subjects that have rumbled through here!  :-)
DCTV/Colorburst questions, Lightwave comparisons ("Ask Mark Thompson")
removeable media drives (for large animations) reviews of Vista Pro
(virtual landscapes in a box) are a few more of the offshoot discussions.

There is a complete archive of the Imagine Mailing List (maintained
by Marvin Landis) at the FTP site hubcap.clemson.edu. In addition to these
excerpts, there are a couple megs of Imagine objects (from Mr. Worley) as
well as many megs of other fun stuff like a Vista landscape, a new Imagine
icon, and a complete project called "Castle" by Helge Rassmussen, not
to mention many pictures.


Active? You bet. There are usually several posts a day, so be certain to
check your mail...or the List where you read it. If you don't, the thing can
really get away from you. Keep an eye out for subject matter that may
be of specific interest to you since your question may already have been
answered.

According to Steve Worley, the highest volume traffic is the question,
"My objects don't all render in trace mode, but it's fine in scanline. What's up?"

We will see about generating an occassional FAQ (frequently asked questions)
list and periodically distributing it via the List.

Also, suggestions about enhancing Imagine and bug reports are welcome.
This List is posted at Portal and is read by at least one employee of Impulse.
Your comments are seen by them. While I can't say you will get a personal
response to a post, you ARE being read!

All posts contained on the Imagine Mailing List are public domain and can be
reposted on BBS's on networks or where ever you see fit. If you should want
to post them somewhere...be sure
1. Include the original posters name and address.
2. Mention where the post is from and our address
   (i.e. The Imagine Mailing List
           [e-mail])



Posting to the List
-----------------------------------
This is the really easy part. To have your question, comment or whatever,
posted to the Imagine Mailing List...send it to

[e-mail]

Your post may take up to a day to appear on the List. Don't panic.
If it does NOT appear, please resubmit it after a day or two wait.
(also read Troubleshooting below)

Subscribing or Unsubscribing to the List
----------------------------------------------------------
To receive the Imagine Mailing List...steaming hot and fresh in your Mailbox....
simply send your request to me at

[e-mail]

In your subject line...please have the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe"



Troubleshooting your Subscription to the List
----------------------------------------------------------------
Occassionally, after you submit an article to the List, you will receive
it back from some area you have never heard of before.
This was a problem on the original List, it may or may not be one
now. We shall see. If you *do* see this happen, you did not do
anything wrong, it is merely the "bounce" effect of a bad mailer at
some site on the List. The mail was attempted to be delivered and
came back to it's generating site (you). Just delete it and watch to make
sure your post DID actually make it to the List.
If you see a problem that you think I should be made aware of...feel free to
email me about it.




About the Creator of the List-  Steve Worley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Worley is a 3D kinda guy who is as familiar with the Imagine
package from Impulse as virtually anyone you will find roaming
free and allowed to drive. :-)
An MIT graduate with a never-ending quest for that  "perfect render",
he is a contest-winning computer artist who's interest in 3D
computer art crosses several product lines.
He is responsible for the wildly successful and helpful book
"Understanding Imagine 2.0 - A Complete Imagine Reference"
as well as the forthcoming (E.T.A.- late June 1992)
"Essence" textures product for Imagine from Apex Publishing.
For information on these products, you can write to Apex at

         APEX Software Publishing
         405 El Camino Real
         Suite 121
         Menlo Park, California   94025
         USA


Steve may be reached for personal mail at the following

[e-mail]




About the List administrator
-------------------------------------------
My name is Dave Wickard. I am a technician at Unisys Corporation
working in the Defense Division called Paramax in Eagan Minnesota.
I work as an Engineering Specialist in the maintenance organization that
handles the hardware onCAD/CAM workstations. Mostly our systems consist of Apollos,
HPs, Suns, Silicon Graphics,Vax-based and Applicons. This job has pretty much
been my meal ticket for the last 11 years.
I have been interested in Imagine ever since I started seeing the amazing ray traces
generated by a friend with it's predecessor Turbo Silver. I have been an Amiga
enthusiast since 1988 or so.
I own an Amiga 2000 with about a gig of hard drive, a tape backup system,
the PPS 040 accelerator and 37 Meg of RAM and a Video Toaster.
My tastes run in the line of Ren and Stimpy, Mystery Science Theater 3000,
The Simpsons and CHEERS (the OLD ones anyways :-)  )
At 35, I can clearly see where I have been and am vaguely interested in
where I am going. My hobbies include Lawnfurnugen (mowing a giant yard),
telecomm (I have been an active member on many different networks),
music (I have a large album and CD collection) and MIDI related topics.
Any other questions may be addressed to me personally.



In closing
---------------------
Thank you for reading the Imagine Mailing List. If you have any questions regarding
it...I am but a few keystrokes away.
If you have any Imagine questions...fire away! There are helpful and
knowledgeable people here who can help.


-Dave Wickard       (612)  456-4725          "How's life treating you Mr. Peterson?"
[e-mail]                           "Like I ran over it's dog."
[e-mail]


##

Subject: ssdemo
Date: Sun, 17 May 92 21:06:27 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Randy Carris)

Pardon this semi-commercial announcement, but I thought users might be interesd in a program that helps manage 24bit IFF files.  It is particulary useful
for textures or backgrounds.
Graphic Imagination Inc.  announces the release of a free demonstration of
Still-Store by Randy Carris.  This demo of Still-Store is Copyright 1991
Graphic Imagination Inc.  It is freely distributable as long as all files
and documentation accompany it.

Still-Store is an image browser for 24bit IFF files.  It serves two very
useful purposes: to save valuable hard drive space, and to save valuable
time.  Space is save by optionally utilizing JPEG compression.  Still-Store
supports the same (JFIF) file standard as other Amiga image programs use.
Compression and decompression of multiple files is completely automated for
your convenience.  Time is saved by allowing you to browse through your
images quickly to locate the ones you need for a given project.
Still-Store lets you preview your images without having to waste time
decompressing ones you don't want.  Previews can be compared side by side
to ease the selection process.  In addition, Still-Store maintains a
database of information on your images so you can keep track of useful
information and perform searches.  Still-Store can import any IFF image as
well as images already compressed with JPEG.  Image sets from other vendors
can also be imported into Still-Store to provide a complete management
solution.

Still-Store includes 20 768x482 24bit images suitable for use as
backgrounds or as texture maps in all popular 3D programs.

In this demo, the import and export functions are disabled.  It
does include many previews to demonstate most functions of the program, as
well as sample database entries.

Still-Store does not have any system requirements, but a hard drive, 3
megabytes of memory, and a processor accelerator are strongly encouraged.
It has been fully tested under AmigaDos 2 with NTSC systems.

Still-Store retails for $99.95, but until June 30, 1992, the price is
discounted to $79.95 plus $3.50 S&H.  Contact Graphic Imagination Inc. for
more information:

Graphic Imagination Inc.
PO Box 661
Marion, IA. 52303
Phone [phone]

This demo will be available for FTP from:

grind.isca.uiowa.edu as /amiga/utils/ssdemo.lha

and hubcap.clemson.edu as /pub/amiga/incoming/graphics.tools/ssdemo.lha
                       or /pub/amiga/incoming/uploads/ssdemo.lha

Note: The docs in the demo state that we accept MasterCard and Visa.  It
should have said we will start accepting them May 22, 1992.
RC


##

Subject: A Wishlist entry...
Date: Sun, 17 May 92 21:18:20 -0700
From: Mark Davis <[e-mail]>

I have been designing various geometric objects and I've found myself
wishing, on a number of occasions, that Imagine would list in the titlebar
the name of the object that is current picked.  It would save me some key-
strokes when designing complex objects.  I also wish there was a way to
load more than one object when using the load requestor besides grouping
multiple objects.  I also wish there was some way to disable the centering
of the object when using the find requestor, maybe a toggle or something.
Toggle on - select and center the found object/toggle off - select the
found object.  Maybe I'll see a falling star this evening ;) or better
yet model one...

mark



##

Subject: Nintendo Power Glove
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 16:17:04 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Howdy. Once again I'm posting a question that departs from Imagine itself,
but BELIEVE ME, it does apply in a sort-of way:

I finally found a good deal ($25) on a Nintendo PowerGlove. It seems
really cool and actually has more 'sensing' control than I had imagined.
I recall some time back a few postings about connecting this thing to
an Amiga and/or source for making use of it.

I do not own a Nintendo so it's a bit hard figuring the pin-outs for the
glove. Can someone lead me in the right direction to find this information
and/or projects that have already been done? Many advance thanks!!

AP.



##

Subject: Re: Female Human Head Obj Wanted
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 10:38:02 PDT
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)

>
> My roommate is looking for a female human head that he can work with as
> a basis for a still. I looked on Hubcap and found "HumanHead" but I
> believe this to be male.
>
I'll bite.  What makes a head male or female?  Skull shape?  Size of
brain?  :-)  I bet you could use it for either, unless it has a moustache
or you don't want to create hair!

Of course, Mark might feel kind of funny about it...  :-)


##

Subject: Re: Female Human Head Obj Wanted
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 17:48:24 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dan Drake)

> I'll bite.  What makes a head male or female?  Skull shape?  Size of
> brain?  :-)  I bet you could use it for either, unless it has a moustache
> or you don't want to create hair!
>
Wow, if you can match up a different brushmap to Marks head, then you should
probably go into business in movies.  I have never tried it personally,
but you might want to load Marks Head Bitmap into a paint program
(24bit or dctv), modify it into a girls, and then pray to whoever your god is
that everything still matches up.  That would seem to be your best bet.

dan.




##

Subject: Re: Female Human Head Obj Wanted
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 18:19:04 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> > My roommate is looking for a female human head.
> > I looked on Hubcap and found "HumanHead" but I believe this to be male.

> I bet you could use it for either, unless it has a moustache
> or you don't want to create hair!
> Of course, Mark might feel kind of funny about it...  :-)

Ahhh, a virtual sex change. That just might fall into the category of
"doing disturbing things with my head" that I once mentioned.
Actually, "HumanHead" is something else. Mine was labelled "MarkHead"
or something like that. In any event, since Sean actually provided the
SGI machine to actract my head data from the Cyberware tape, he already
has a copy of it.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: Cycle object problem
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 19:14:34 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Semegran)

I have loaded a Cycle object that works fine, into the Detail Editor and changed
attributes and also the structure of one of the components assigned to a link.
I saved all the components with unique names so that I could take the original
Cycle object, and Deassign the components from the links, and then Assign the
modified ones in their places.  This was done in Cell 0* of the Cycle editor.
Quick Renders of the object of the object come out fine.

When I load the object into the Stage Editor, and then render the frames, the
object that was structurally modified seems to have sunk down into the Cycle
object.  It's the head of a man and it has sunk down into his chest!  The Quick
Renders everywhere don't exhibit this problem.

Any suggestions?  It's driving me nuts!


##

Subject: looking for view3.2
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 20:09:14 EST
From: taz![e-mail] (Dan Drake)

I am looking for the latest version of view, since it seems to be
able to play back animations at decent rates.  Could someone either
mail it to me, give me an ftp site where I could find it, or a BMS
site?

Thanks,

dan.

Please mail any binaries to : taz![e-mail]





##

Subject: Wishlist for Imagine V3.0 - V4.0 Part I
Date: 19 May 92 19:05 +0100
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>

RFC-822-Headers:
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

==================
This is a mail for all people who are interessted in improving Imagine
to be the best one on the market. So if anyone has additional ideas
to the one mentioned below please add them. First I apologize for
my poor descriptions but english is not the best thing i can do.
Second I want the people at Impulse reply to me via this mailing
list when  they get this mail.

This a long wishlist for ImagineV3.0 and further versions.
I wrote this because I want  to get Imagine the best raytracer for
the amiga because I don't want to buy any further software like
caligari, raydance etc. etc.

Lets start:

1) Snap axis to grid. This option (in stage and detail) should
   place the axis of the current selected objects to the nearest
   grid cros-section.
2) One-dimensional movement. It would be handy to have an option
   in moving objects that would alow to move objects with the mouse
   only along one (!) axis. And what is more in fixed steps say 20 units
   or so. So if you want to move your object 40 units along the Y axis
   you only have to choose one-dim movement along Y axis (gadget !)
   and then do it (perhaps in conjunction with snap axis to grid)
3) Variables in the action editor. It would be great if you could place
   names instead of numbers in the frame counter string gadgets.
   For example instead of typing 100 in the frames counter you type

   "length_of_anim". Then you put a value (in a special editor)
   to this variable say: length_of_anim=100. Then you use this variable in all actor-requesters: You define the appearence of a sphere in your scene by : Sphere from 0 to length_of_anim.
   At this point i must apologize for my poor english. I hope you'll get what i mean. The use of point 3 is that if you want your anim to be a bit      smoother then you only have to change the variable and to all of the actor
   requestors. Also it should be possible to do some basic calculation
   with it: You could specify a varible for an important point, say
   the beginning of a special effect e.g. "explosion=50" means that
   an explosion takes place at frame 50. Then you could tell imagine
   to start 5 frames later a movement along a path by: explosion + 5.
   A third important feature is that all calculation and values should
   be displayed (and entered) in frames and time (e.g. seconds) so you
   will have a better view of your animation.
   (Oh god, describing technical things in english is sooo difficult)
4) Outlining feature:
   What about a feature to create an outline of an outline (funny ?).
   If you want to build a text-object with the edges reflecting the
   light (a much better picture then without) you could do this
   (in the detail editor) with outlining an outline of the
   converted (ILBM convert) picture of the logo. You make several layers of different size (by outlinng them and then "skin" them together and voila
   the object is complete (a nice feature isn't it).

5) Gernal morphing. I know it's difficult but it would be nice if
imagine could morph (smoothly) between objects of different point number
and structure).

6) Scripts and/or Arexx.
   Many things in 3-d modelling could be done real quick if you could
   build a small script file and then compile it (or something) and
   then have imagine execute it. Some suggestions:
   - fractal mathematics
   - trees (like in raydance, would be real great !!!!!)
   - own textures-scripts.
   These scripts should be a small programming language with
   strucutre elements like: if then else, for next, procedural
   subdividing etc. The points of an object should be accessible via
   Vectors (example: sphere[100].x = x coord). I know that Glenn Lewis
   has programmed a TDDD-Lib where you can access object data via C
   programming. But as you see above there should be more than that.
7) Brush-morphing. Another hard thing to do, I know. But it would be
   a big thing if one could morph between different brushemaps.

8) Acceleration and Deacceleration. I think a more abstract aproach
   would be better: Very morphable thing (changeable by value) in
   imagine should be accerable (deaccerable). For this there should
   be a new requester independent of all other data in the action
   editor. There you specify the velocity of change in a X/Y - axis
   diagramm where the X axis is the timeline (in frames or seconds)
   and the Y axis is the percentage of the start velocity.
   Example: You specify a starting value of 50 and then draw a
   sine-like curve into the requester. If you apply this acc/deacc

  setting (which should be savable - loadable etc.) to a path then
  a object should which is applied to the path should start with
  50 units/per frame then smoothly accerlerate and then smoothly de-
  accerlerate. I hope you got the point. This is again very hard
  to describe for me. This feature should be appendable everywhere
  where a smooth change takes place. e.g. in morphing objects,
  changing colors, changing alignments etc. etc. This would be
  a real great thing  to have.

By the way. If anyone at Impulse reads this and gets interessted in
several points but doesn't understands completely what I mean or needs
further description (total descriptions with requesters etc.) then
mail me and I try to work out the points again. Perhaps I could
to tell you the things in german (this would be more easy for me).
But I'll try to say all in english.

So let's finish this first part. If anyone at Impulse gets this mail
please inform me that you got it, because it is stupid to write
wishlists when you don't get them and I have truck-loads of ideas left
to tell you, so please mail me.



##

Subject: Wanted :toaster
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 13:17:58 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Toaster Man)

YO fellow Imaginers...

Using Imagine with a 040 is great! Does anyone know when a possible release
of Imagine 3 will be?  Also I have over heard that Their might be a possible
release of RenderMan?

Anyway  I was wondering if anyone had a used toaster v.1 or v2 they would part
with or know anyone or anyplace that I could aquire a  used board?


Steve T.





##

Subject: HEEEEEEEELP!!!!
Date: Thu, 21 May 92 12:57:54 EST
From: [e-mail] (Hannibal Lektor)

    Ok, dont panic, most of you veterans out there will know the
    answer to this question off the top of your head.

    I have IMAGINE1.0 and have about as much artistic ability
    as a small rock.

    The think is, I have a project I need to complete for some
    software I am writing.

    I have a company logo that is about 50x50pixels.

    I want to map it onto a flat plane and spin it around its
    Y-axis.

    I need about 150+ frames, as this logo will be consistantly
    spinning in the top left hand corner of the screen.

    Can anyone out there give me simple steps to achive this.

    The IMAGINE manual is the lamest piece of literature I have
    ever read.

    Thanking you in advance

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    RICHARD PEARSON             Vision Factory (Aust) Pty. Ltd.
    programmer.                 "leaders in visionary technology"
    -----------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: The Goo
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 20:12:40 PDT
From: [e-mail]

I have a question for you masters. :-)

Let's say that I want to do a design that would include some
relective oil on a surface. Let's say it has to drip off
once in a while. So a teardrop shape would be fine...
but I also need a sort of "GOO" effect. It would need to
be raytraced...since it would need to reflect...but the
unusual thing would be the semi-liquid...gooey effect.

I realize this is kind of a strange idea, but is there a way
to do it? Or does something like this belong on a "wish list"
type thing?

-Dave Wickard    (612)  456-4725      "I HATE 'yes-men'...are YOU one?"
[e-mail]                 "ummmm...splunge!"
[e-mail]              "Splunge?"
                                       "Maybe yes...but maybe no."


##

Subject: Re:  The Goo
Date: Thu, 21 May 92 10:32:20 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Mike "The Doves" Mikottis)

   =>   From [e-mail] Thu May 21 03:09:40 1992

   =>   Let's say that I want to do a design that would include some
   =>   relective oil on a surface. Let's say it has to drip off
   =>   once in a while. So a teardrop shape would be fine...

I can't help you with the GOO problem, but I would like to comment on
another part of your post, esp. as I have seen this come up time and
again.  A common misconception re: liquid droplets is that they are
teardrop shaped!  It's good iconography but poor physics.  Except for
_special_ cases such as the split second following the moment a drop
detaches from a surface into midair, drops are much closer to spherical
shaped than to "teardrop" shaped.  Of course they are not perfect spheres
as they deform this way and that as they are buffeted by the air as they
fall, but the general shape is more spherical than tear shaped.

And even tears are not usually teardrop shaped!  Tears running down a cheek,
or rain down a window pane might be better characterized as "little raised
rivulets with a spherical bump on the end" or something.  I know some will
not believe this and will want to put a spherical bump on my head.  Well you
are in good company: check out the inside front cover of the SIGGRAPH '92
Advance Program for a nice rendering of a "3D drop".  But if you want some
empirical proof to the contrary, just examine any high speed photography of
water flying through the air... I too was once a skeptic.

SPLASH,  Mike.

##----------------------------------------------------------------##
##  Mike Mikottis  ##  opinions mine  ##  !uunet!motcid!mikottis  ##
##----------------------------------------------------------------##




##

Subject: Cycle Question
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 11:27:20 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>


This may be too difficult to explain without visual aids but here
goes!

Lets say you have a person with arms and legs. (go ahead think about
it)  Now how do you orient the axises for the upper arm and upper leg?
I understand how to make the lower arm attach to the upper arm and
then to the body, but to get correct cycling of the arm I need the
axis to look like a T  so that they all meet at the shoulders right?
with the T configuration then the legs also cycle around the
shoulders!
(This is with Imagine 1.1) Is 2.0 better at this? or is there
something I am not doing?  I have Steve's book (and I thank God
continually for it) but I can't quite see how to hook multiple cycling
objects to the same "base"
(A helecopter main vs. tail rotor also comes to mind.)

 Thanks
Adam B



##

Subject: Brushmap On Ground
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 16:07:15 -0400
From: [e-mail]

Can anyone tell me if there is a bug (or maybe a secret) with 2.0 and
brushmapping onto a Ground object? I spent most of last night trying to
color-wrap a simple IFF brush onto a ground object with the Repeat and
Mirror options turned on, when I quick rendered, there was nothing but a
single row of the brush which was grossly disorted. I tried diddling the
scale and axis every which way but loose, but nothing worked :^( I also
tryed the same thing on a simple Plane Object and it worked great :^) Can
anyone help !

Dave Kelly            [e-mail]




##

Subject: creating anims
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 15:49:38 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    My mailer is FINALLY working.  I'm so happy.  Now I can
    participate in this list.

    Questions:

    1. I created a 242 frame animation.  I rendered the frames in
    trace, HAM mode.  I tried to create an Imagine anim.  It builds
    the anim, show the pictures (pretty they are).  Then it acts like
    its done.

    Problem:  When i load the movie, it cranks away like its doing
    something.  The busy cursor goes away and low and behold...
    nothin'!.  The inactive buttons don't even become active.  I can't
    play it because the play buttons are still inactive.  Any ideas at
    what I should check?

    2.  A friend of mine saw one of my animations and was blown away.
    She wants to by an Amiga for her son for his 13th birthday.  He
    has been to a couple of users' group meetings and has fallin in
    love with the Amiga.  She eventually wants to get him a copy of
    Imagine.  What I want to be able to tell her is the minimum
    configuration that he'll need to run Imagine 2.0.  She isn't rich
    and will have to draw upon resourses (grandparents) to get the
    funds together.  She is open to buying a used system.

    I know that rendering frames can be time consuming.  So what does
    she NEED to get so that her son can start playing with Imagine?
    She mentioned a 500, but i wonder if the 500 will do the job.

    Thanks in advance,



       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers                Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
                                     Internet:
                                     [e-mail]

                                    .






##

Subject: Re: Cycle Question
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 17:31:44 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>
>This may be too difficult to explain without visual aids but here
>goes!
>
>Lets say you have a person with arms and legs. (go ahead think about
>it)  Now how do you orient the axises for the upper arm and upper leg?
>I understand how to make the lower arm attach to the upper arm and
>then to the body, but to get correct cycling of the arm I need the
>axis to look like a T  so that they all meet at the shoulders right?
>with the T configuration then the legs also cycle around the
>shoulders!
>(This is with Imagine 1.1) Is 2.0 better at this? or is there
>something I am not doing?  I have Steve's book (and I thank God
>continually for it) but I can't quite see how to hook multiple cycling
>objects to the same "base"
>(A helecopter main vs. tail rotor also comes to mind.)
>
> Thanks
>Adam B
>
>
>

    The easiest way to do this is to just group the objects in the
cycle editor.  You can place the parent axis (the body) anywhere.  Now
you need to place the axis for the arms and legs EXACTLY where you want
them to pivot.  Also, make the length of these Z-axis on these moving
parts the length of the object.  Now group the objects in a heirarchial
nature, that is group the lower parts first and work your way.  eg:
group the lower arm to the hand.  Then the upper arm to the lower arm
and finally the body to the upperarm.

    Now go into the cycle editor and load this object.  When it asks
if you want to convert it to a cycle object say "yes".  Now your object
is there and you can manipulate it.
    One problem you may run into is that the way the axis are
combined, will result in limited motion of the moving parts.  Basically,
they will not move the way you want them to, though they will be
pivoting at the point you DO want them to.  To solve this you need to
add a lone axis in between the places where this happens and regroup.
Say the upper arm is pivoting in a bad direction no matter what from the
body.  Simply add an axis in the shoulder.  Now group this axis to the
arm and then the body to the axis.
(Hierarchy=body->axis->UParm->LWArm) and the motion should become okay.
You may need to do this many places.

    I don't recall is cycle setup, cycle shuffle and so on are in
the 1.1 version.  If they are, run cycle setup before you go into the
cycle editor. This will let you see how the axis will REALLY be
positioned in the cycle editor BEFORE you quit the detail editor.  This
way you can muck about with the grouping all in the detail editor.

    Also, 2.0 has a use cycle something or other which basically
makes it so that when you rotate objects in the detail that are grouped,
they will rotate in the limited fashion so that once again you can work
out all your problems before hand in the detail editor.

    Once again, do the tutorial.  I haven't even mentioned the load
pose feature.  But I am pressed for time.  Most of this reply is
probably incoherent since I am about to rush off the computer and am
trying to give as much info as I can.  If you have any questions just
post to the list, or e-mail me.  Hope this helps.

                      Mike Comet
            [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: creating anims
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 15:30:24 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Virtually Here)

Dale R Rogers
>     2.  A friend of mine saw one of my animations and was blown away.
>     She wants to by an Amiga for her son for his 13th birthday.  He
>     has been to a couple of users' group meetings and has fallin in
>     love with the Amiga.  She eventually wants to get him a copy of
>     Imagine.  What I want to be able to tell her is the minimum
>     configuration that he'll need to run Imagine 2.0.  She isn't rich
>     and will have to draw upon resourses (grandparents) to get the
>     funds together.  She is open to buying a used system.
>
>     I know that rendering frames can be time consuming.  So what does
>     she NEED to get so that her son can start playing with Imagine?
>     She mentioned a 500, but i wonder if the 500 will do the job.
>
A 500 works just fine.  I was at one time, using an Amiga 500 with 3 megs,
and a small Harddrive, and Imagine worked just fine.  It was slow, but
it was more than adequate for just messing around.  Many people around
here (San Diego) are selling used systems similar to this for around
$700.  This would, in my opinion, be a good starter system.

________________________________________________________________________
  Scott Ellis  a.k.a. [e-mail]   | Only Amiga
-------------------------------------------------|     Makes it
"Never test for a bug you don't know how to fix."|            Possible


##

Subject: Re: Brushmap On Ground
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 22:14:06 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>Can anyone tell me if there is a bug (or maybe a secret) with 2.0 and
>brushmapping onto a Ground object? I spent most of last night trying to
>color-wrap a simple IFF brush onto a ground object with the Repeat and
>Mirror options turned on, when I quick rendered, there was nothing but a
>single row of the brush which was grossly disorted. I tried diddling the
>scale and axis every which way but loose, but nothing worked :^( I also
>tryed the same thing on a simple Plane Object and it worked great :^) Can
>anyone help !
>
>Dave Kelly            [e-mail]
>
>
>
>

    Well, Imagine 2.0 automatically tries to decide how to wrap a
brush for you based on how the objects axis are set.  Unfortunately, the
grounds axis are not in the correct alignment for a quick wrap.  To
remedy this, you can rotate, rescale and resize the defualt imagine
gives you for the wraping to work properly.  Technically you could just
re-align the grounds axis before you go into the brush map req, but
Imagine doesn't allow you to do that since the ground is a special
object.

    So, heres what to do step by step it is really pretty simple.

    1] Add a ground

    2] Go into the Attributes req. for the ground

    3] Add abrush map to get into the brush map requestor.

    4] Select FLAT X and FLAT Z

    5] Select Transform Axis

    6] Click on Alignment and enter -90 for the X value.  Leave Y
        and Z at 0.

    7] Click on size and change Y to 20, and Z to 400.  Leave X at
         640.

    8] Click on position and enter 15 for Z.  Leave X and Y at -320
and -200 respectively.

    9] Select Perform.

    10] You can now click on Edit Axis to assure your self that it
is properly set.  Press space when done.

    11]  If you want to make you brush map repeat, click on repeat
so that the map covers the whole ground repeatedly.

    You can also select mirror.

    12] Select okay and render away!

    Thats it, select okay for the wrap and attr req. and you'll be
all set.  Just make sure you camera is looking at the part of the ground
you wrapped (not a problem if you selected Repeat.)

    Hope this helps.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: creating anims
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 22:19:22 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>
>    My mailer is FINALLY working.  I'm so happy.  Now I can
>    participate in this list.
>

    Great!


>    Questions:
>
>    1. I created a 242 frame animation.  I rendered the frames in
>    trace, HAM mode.  I tried to create an Imagine anim.  It builds
>    the anim, show the pictures (pretty they are).  Then it acts like
>    its done.
>
>    Problem:  When i load the movie, it cranks away like its doing
>    something.  The busy cursor goes away and low and behold...
>    nothin'!.  The inactive buttons don't even become active.  I can't
>    play it because the play buttons are still inactive.  Any ideas at
>    what I should check?
>

    Yes, pull down the window and watch your RAM drop to almost
nothing!  Then watch it come back after imagine frees what it took since
you don't have enough.  You will need over 8 megs most likely for a 242
full size HAM anim.  I have gone up to 18 megs on my machine and I have
still run out for anims around the 300 frame mark.

    The onlyu thing you can do is to buy more RAM which isn't really
that bad since it will help you edit larger objects, multitask and so on
and the prices are fairly good right now I think.

>    2.  A friend of mine saw one of my animations and was blown away.
>    She wants to by an Amiga for her son for his 13th birthday.  He
>    has been to a couple of users' group meetings and has fallin in
>    love with the Amiga.  She eventually wants to get him a copy of
>    Imagine.  What I want to be able to tell her is the minimum
>    configuration that he'll need to run Imagine 2.0.  She isn't rich
>    and will have to draw upon resourses (grandparents) to get the
>    funds together.  She is open to buying a used system.
>
>    I know that rendering frames can be time consuming.  So what does
>    she NEED to get so that her son can start playing with Imagine?
>    She mentioned a 500, but i wonder if the 500 will do the job.
>

    Well a 500 will do it, but the more powerfull the better.  You
DON'T want to skimp on proccessor speed, RAM or hard drive space when it
comes to ray tracing, but you probably allready know this.


>    Thanks in advance,
>
>
>       dale r. rogers                Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
>                                     Internet:
>                                     [e-mail]
>
>
>
>

    That should help i think.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: FractalPro5.1
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 23:53:00 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

    Fellow Imagineers,


    Well, when I got Imagemaster, I gave you a quick review of the
program. Very soon now, I will give you one on FractalPro 5.1. I just
spent a half hour talking to the programmer at MegageM. It sound like an
amazing program.
    Since there has been so much hype lately about the Fusion Forty
040 Accelerator, I thought I'd let you know that this program supports
the Math Co-Processor within the 040. I can't wait. He told me that an
image that took 20 hours to render on stock Amiga 500/2000 will render in
7 minutes on an A3000 or in 2 minutes on an 040. That is impressive. He is
using Progressive Peripherals 040, but that shouldn't make much difference.

    Anyways, you can render 24bit fractal animations...he really only
calculates out to 14bits, since there is no visible difference due to the
pixel limitation on the viewing screens. He saves either HAM or 24bit. He
professes that his program runs circles around all of the PD Fractal programs.
I have many of those...and some of them are pretty nice.
    His output resolutions are as follows:

    640x400x24 or 320x400xHAM standard hires interlace or interlace HAM
    736x482x24 or 368x482xHAM max DCTV size or interlace HAM
    752x480x24           Toaster resolution
    768x480x24 or 386x480xHAM Firecracker resolution or interlace HAM
       1024x480x24           Hires Firecracker resolution


    This program supports AREXX and includes some AREXX scripts that
support ADPRO, but would not be hard to change to Imagemaster. Also, through
AREXX, you can re-render a quadrant (be it 1/4th, 1/16th or whatever) as a
full image by itself and have the images composited in ADPRO or Imagemaster
at very high resolutions. This is obviously good for slides, prints, or just
to get very large resolution images for brushmaps or programs that can use
a Higher resolution backdrop like Lightwave.

    I believe that he wrote this in Assembler. He follows all of
Commodore's programming rules. His software runs fine under 1.2, 1.3, and
2.04. His software multitasks very well and he recommends runnning it in the
background at a -1 priority while you do other work. That's what I do with
Imagine when it is rendering and I want to download something and work on
Dpaint at the same time.

    His next version will be able to specify a custom reolution within
the program. Currently, you have five different versions of the program
depending on which reolution you want. I think that is silly, but as long
as the rest of it works as he said it did, I will be one happy customer.

    I will let you know when I get it, but I recommend calling MegageM
if you have any questions. The number is [phone]. Have fun.

Juan Trevino
[e-mail]


##

Subject: RCS offer extended
Date: Sat, 23 May 1992 14:58:21 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

RCS has informed me that the special offer on their Fusion Forty
board has been extended to the end of June due to a mix up in the
postal system where a large bag of mail destined to US clubs and
informing them of the offer, was returned to their offices by
mistake. The mail is now being resent.

-stephen

--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265


##

Subject: AmigaWorld contest
Date: Sun, 24 May 92 14:08:27 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Just a question for you Imagine fanatics.  :-)

Seeing as we have such a large group of 3D animators here,
 how many of us are rendering and modeling madly in competition
 for the Amiga World contest?

All those intending to throw their hats into the ring...
    raise your hands.

-Dave Wickard       [phone]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: AmigaWorld contest
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 08:01:25 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>
>Just a question for you Imagine fanatics.  :-)
>
>Seeing as we have such a large group of 3D animators here,
> how many of us are rendering and modeling madly in competition
> for the Amiga World contest?
>
>All those intending to throw their hats into the ring...
>    raise your hands.
>
>-Dave Wickard       [phone]
>[e-mail]
>[e-mail]
>
>

    Well I am planning on it but there is one thing in the ad that I
don't understand.  Do they want the anim file or a tape or what?  It
says: "Send yor besy animation on a floppy disk with full loading
instructions with either a 1.2" or 3/4" review copy to..."

    Okay, so they want a disk.  But then what is the 1/2" or 3/4",
that's a tape size!  Do they want both, why?  What if it's in 24 bit?
How about if it's bigger than 1 floppy?

    I don't know.  Seems a little mysteious to me.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: creating anims
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 09:57:58 -0700
From: [e-mail] ( James McInnis)

>>    Problem:  When i load the movie, it cranks away like its doing
>>    something.  The busy cursor goes away and low and behold...
>>    nothin'!.  The inactive buttons don't even become active.  I can't
>>    play it because the play buttons are still inactive.  Any ideas at
>>    what I should check?
>>

>     Yes, pull down the window and watch your RAM drop to almost
>nothing!  Then watch it come back after imagine frees what it took since
>you don't have enough.  You will need over 8 megs most likely for a 242
>full size HAM anim.  I have gone up to 18 megs on my machine and I have
>still run out for anims around the 300 frame mark.

>     The onlyu thing you can do is to buy more RAM which isn't really
>that bad since it will help you edit larger objects, multitask and so on
>and the prices are fairly good right now I think.

 Another thing to try, if you're just on the edge of needed RAM is to QUIT
Imagine and use the Playianm program (that comes with Imagine) from the CLI.
This will at least free up the RAM that Imagine itself uses and you don't
really need Imagine to play back an Imagine anim. From the CLI type,
as an example:

           Imagine:Playianm Work:MyProject.imp/MyFrames.pix/anim

this should allow you to load and play the animation. Speed of playback
is controlled by the Function keys (and this is adjustable by using the +
and - keys).


   On an unrelated note, just got back last night from the Grateful Dead's
concert at Shoreline Ampitheatre (Mountain View, CA). Before the encore
the video screen showed an animation of each of the band members heads
morphing into one anothers. It is like some of the discussions here about
ImageMaster morphs but these definately were 3-D morphs (the heads rotated
as they were displayed). Looked very fine and quite interesting.


##

Subject: Re: AmigaWorld Contest
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 16:43:38 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    Okay, I just picked up June's Amiga World and have figured this
all out.  They now have a full page add on page 100 descibing all the
important stuff in detail.  Bascially, they want your animation either
on tape or on disk.  However, if it's on tape they want a disk with
something on it to prove that it was amiga created.  Blah blah blah...

    Good luck to everyone else who's planning on submitting!

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: New SSDemo
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 12:11:08 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Randy Carris)

[e-mail]

Sorry for the confusion folks, but the original archive had a problem.

There is a new version of SSDemo on hubcap for FTP.  It should work fine as long as your
archiver leaves the directory structure intact.  We also enabled more of the demo, making
it nearly as functional as the commercial version, but not as convienient.  We went out on
a linb here, so please if you like the demo, buy the program.

It can be found on hubcap.celmson.edu in:
pub/amiga/incoming/graphics.tools  as SSDemoV1_1.lha

Thanks again,
Randy Carris


##

Subject: READ ME!
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 20:12:42 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Greetings Imagineers!  :-)

I have something that may be quite exciting to announce!
(wait..let me reword that...)   :-)
But first, a little background. When I started using Imagine, I was amazed
at the images that people were able to produce. Then, as I got a little
more familiar with the product, it seemed that many of the images used
many of the same objects that I had seen in other images...just in new
settings. The modeler in Imagine is (in my opinion anyways) what really
sets it apart from other 3D packages. It just seems that I should be seeing
more images that use original objects.

With this in mind, I decided that one way to promote creativity using Imagine
and it's modeler would be to hold a contest.

Naturally,  as in any contest, prizes would be a must.   :-)

Enter Steve Worley (Imagineer extraordinaire) and Mike Halvorson (president
of Impulse- creators of Imagine) who eagerly agreed that this would be
a wonderful idea IF WE COULD GENERATE ENOUGH PARTICIPATION.  :-)
Steve has offered up his new texture product for Imagine called Essence and
a couple copies of his "Understanding Imagine 2.0" book...and Impulse has
left me several options I discribe below.

These gentlemen have graciously offered to donate some of the prizes that
will be offered in this contest. In addition, I am currently discussing the contest
with several other select vendors and soliciting them for a couple prizes...more
on those later.

First of all, I am making a call for opinions on the contest. Particularly, the following
questions...

1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?
2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would you
    be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).
3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
    guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be something
    on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from Impulse?
4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
     categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
     for SEVERAL categories?
5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should
     each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/she
     already had that product?




About the Contest:

The contest will be judged solely by employees of Impulse.
Entries will be sent to me and forwarded to Impulse with no name or
identification of any kind except a number. It is a blind judging.
All objects and images must be originals. They cannot be available
from any other source such as FTP, or on any disk, commercial, shareware or PD.
The individual MUST (underline that a few times) MUST MUST be a registered
owner of Imagine or Turbo Silver. If you have not notified Impulse of your
copy and registered it, do so now...otherwise you are ineligible for any prizes.
The individual MUST be an end reader of the Imagine Mailing List in any
format...be it on a BBS system...a network...or directly via the List itself.
(This means that if you know of anyone who uses Imagine and would be
 interested in joining the contest...notify them to GET ON THE LIST!)  :-)


The dates , rules and prizes of this contest are up for discussion
by the members of the Imagine Mailing List so make your discussions
public! We *need* to know what you want to do. And remember,
participation is the key here. The more participation we get, the
better the prize package potential!  This is directly from Mike Halvorson
today on the phone when he called. First and foremost...originality counts!

The formal announcement of prizes, dates and rules will be made after
we get a chance to examine the response from the Imagine Mailing List
members.


Dave Wickard   [phone]    "TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'VE GONE TO
[e-mail]                       A BAD DOCTOR"
[e-mail]      "1. After he asks you to cough, he says,
                                                               'OK, Now my turn."
                                                         -Dave Letterman


##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 00:57:20 -0700
From: [e-mail] (66291000)

Let's see...   Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  I think the contest is a great idea.
As for its format, I'd like to see separate categories.  That's purely
for personal benefit, perhaps (as I am more of a modeler than an
animator).  But I think judging animations and objects together would
be insanely difficult.
For prize selection: how would the pool idea work?  Grand prize goes
first?  (I can just picture the winner saying, "I'd like that disk
full of Imagine Objects, thank you."  and the runner-up lamenting:
"Ah, shucks.  You mean I have to take that Firecracker 24?")
Basically, I'm not sure what I think about the prize situation.

My only hope is that the deadline be put sometime near the end of
September.  I'm leaving for Europe in two weeks and won't be back
until the end of August.  I'd _love_ to enter the contest, but won't
be able to if it's a summertime deal.


The bottom line:  I will participate if the deadline is far enough
away.

        - Stefon
          [e-mail]


##

Subject: Re:  READ ME!
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 09:14:46 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Groovy idea. And thanks for promoting it. It's a contest I actually have a
chance of winning. (Instead of having to go up against Brad Schneck in the
Amiga World thing.

Anyway, I'd suggest the following extra rules:

1) All objects in the image must be original creations, since as you point out,
the strength of Imagine is its renderer. This will also hopefully increase
our library on hubcap a bit.

2)
  Entries should be in IFF-24, even if the sender can't display the image
on his local equipment, he can render it, and that will even out differences
in the pictures caused by the image format during judging.

3) The above counts for stills. I'd also like to see a second category for
animations, with entries required to be in DCTV-3bit format. The worst problem
here is transmitting these mondo file sizes. (I've got some 10 Meg files
lying around on tape.)

Moo
Frank Branham


##

Subject: more on creating anims
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 10:57:23 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    Thanks for all the advice on my amount of RAM being the reason the
    anim wouldn't run.  Yes.. indeed that was the problem.  So......
    I tried to recreate the anim in small chunks and put it together
    using the Director 2.  I'll beef up on my RAM a little later.

    I have AnimBuild; the PD software from Cryogenics.  Trouble is I
    can't seem to get it to work.  It seems easy enough.  I even read
    the accompanying document.  I didn't do anything wrong.  It isn't
    creating the anim file for me though.  I set up the anim file
    path, the name, and built my list of picture files (HAM).  I
    hit the BUILD button.  The form disappears so quickly it
    can't possibly be doing anything.  The anim file doesn't exist
    in the directory.

    I tried using makeanim too.  I built my filelist, then typed
    in "makeanim filelist anim_name".  It keeps telling me it
    can't locate my files.  I'm sitting in the directory where the
    files reside and the files definately exist.  Any suggestions?
    It's frustration spending hours and hours stuck in these
    technical issues.  I rather be spending my hours in
    creating animations.

    Thanks again.



       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers                Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
                                     Internet:
                                     [e-mail]

                                    .






##

Subject: Re:  READ ME!
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 17:35:59 EDT
From: F. Felixberto <[e-mail]>

Sam_Mayday_Malone wrote:
>From [e-mail] Wed May 27 00:52:42 1992
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: READ ME!
>Lines: 81
>X-Origin: The Portal System (TM)



>First of all, I am making a call for opinions on the contest. Particularly, the> following
>questions...

>1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?
    Yes.
>2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would you
>    be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).
    Yes.
>3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
>   guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be something
>   on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from Impulse?
    Yes.
>4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
>     categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
>     for SEVERAL categories?
    I vote for several categories.
>5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should
>     each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/she
>     already had that product?
    I think it would be better to have assigned prizes for each position.


                        felix



##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 11:41:04 MDT
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

>
> 1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?

    You bet!

> 2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would you
>     be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).

    Er, maybe... I think I'd like alot of "little" prizes rather than say
3 Firecrackers. That way more people win. Stuff like Imagine 3.0, Textures, FX,
Books, VideoTapes, Pixel3-D, Vertex, etc.

> 3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
>     guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be something
>     on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from Impulse?

    For Textures or FX you bet!

> 4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
>      categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
>      for SEVERAL categories?

    Hmm, several categories- but not TOO many.

> 5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should
>      each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/she
>      already had that product?
>
    Each catagory has it's own set o' prizes.
>
> About the Contest:
>
> All objects and images must be originals. They cannot be available

    I'd like to suggest that winning objects/images/anims be put on hubcap
for all to use. Seems that was your starting point of this contest, to generate
more PD objects for everyone.

    Chris



##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 15:31:34 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

I think this contest is an excellent idea!  Nothing quite so exciting as
the promise of prizes to make us all get busy ... :)

> 1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?

Absolutely!

> 2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would
>    you be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).

I'd consider that a fair deal.  However, there are many people that might
participate from over-seas.  Sending money from there is somewhat more
complex (and costly!) than a simple US Check.  Perhaps this should be
considered for the sake of fairness?

> 3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
>    guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be
>    something on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from
>    Impulse?

I'd say that would increase the incentive for people to participate who may
not feel they're in the same league as the "big experts".
    Perhaps a partial "Essence" textures set (3-5 textures instead of
the whole set) would make a good incentive; or 10% off the Imagine 3.0
upgrade (coupon?) or something like that.

> 4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
>    categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
>    for SEVERAL categories?

I would lean towards multiple categories, especially since hardware
limitations may put a ceiling on people's creativity and thus prevent them
to go "the whole nine yards" with animations.

> 5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should
>     each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/she
>     already had that product?

Fixed prizes might allow people to focus more tightly on a particular goal
(creativity --> prize).  There would also not be any sort of bad blood when
the contest is over as to who gets what.  If the rules (and prizes) are
laid down beforehand, there should (ideally) be no complaints.
    This would not prevent winners from trading their prizes with each
other.

> The contest will be judged solely by employees of Impulse.

Should some criteria be established by whish contest entries will be
judged, or should we leave it at a rather informal, vague level?

> Entries will be sent to me and forwarded to Impulse with no name or
> identification of any kind except a number.

This is a good idea.  Not to be nit-picking, however, but how would Impulse
know that what you submit to them comes from registered Imagine/TS users?

> The dates, rules and prizes of this contest are up for discussion by the
> members of the Imagine Mailing List so make your discussions public!

My suggestion for the deadline:  August 31, or maybe December 31.

What about the creator's rights to his or her work?  Will all submissions
become the property of Impulse or will their copyright remain with the
designer?  I consider this an important point.

How are entries to be submitted?  A disk with the raw scene on it which
will be rendered to a standard 24-bit format by you or Impulse?  A set of
disks with the final images/objects/animations on them?  A video tape with
animation or stills?  Suggestions, anyone?

My own suggestions for submissions are:

Objects:      object (.iob) file on disk plus a rendered image as in 'Images'
Still Images: rendered to 24-bit RGBN (better compression than IFF-24) +
              objects (.iob) files on disk, including Stage setup file.
Animations:   rendered to VHS video tape with Stage setup file and objects
              included on disk.

Yahoo!

 ._.  Udo Schuermann       "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from
 ( )  [e-mail]    orbit.  It's the only way to be sure."
 Seeking virtual memory                             -- Lt. Ripley, "Aliens"


##

Date: Wed, 27 May 92 20:24:01 -0400
From: [e-mail] (David A. Rollins)

>To: [e-mail]
>From: [e-mail]
>Date: Tue, 26 May 92 20:12:42 PDT

>Greetings Imagineers!  :-)
>
>I have something that may be quite exciting to announce!
>(wait..let me reword that...)   :-)
>
>First of all, I am making a call for opinions on the contest. Particularly, the following
>questions...

>About the Contest:
>
>The individual MUST be an end reader of the Imagine Mailing List in any
>format...be it on a BBS system...a network...or directly via the List itself.
>(This means that if you know of anyone who uses Imagine and would be
> interested in joining the contest...notify them to GET ON THE LIST!)  :-)

I have deleted the bulk of your enlightening post to save time and to get
to the point. The lines above are the only area where I think you may be
being unreasonable. Some people do not have any way to get the mailing
list without making long distance telephone calls. I am not a registered
user of Imagine, but my partner is. I use Imagine on his A3000 as an
unpaid "employee." His only access to the Imagine Mailing List is through
me, and that is only due to my having a student account on my college's
Sequent. Had I not had an account, we would not ever have known about
the mailing list. There are probably ten times or more as many people
using Imagine who either have no direct access to the mailing list or who
do not even know it exists. Restricting participant eligibility to only
those on the list is unfair and severely limits the number of people
who can participate in the contest. This limitation effectively creates
a "no contest" situation. I think you need to re-think this requirement.

I would lobby for eligibility of those who use Imagine but are not
registered users as a consequence of being in the employ of registered
users, but I would probably not get very far. However, I do think that
these folks could or should be included if they can prove they have
an employee affiliation with a registered user. I am sure that there
are many cases existing where the registered owner has never used
Imagine, but has purchased the product for use by an employee whose
job requires the use of such a tool.

Contests are much more interesting when they are receptive to a wide
contestant base, especially when the prizes may be determined by the
amount of funds accumulated through entrance fees. The bigger the
prizes, the greater the response and the higher level of detail in
the content of the submissions.


>The formal announcement of prizes, dates and rules will be made after
>we get a chance to examine the response from the Imagine Mailing List
>members.

Well, that's my opinion. If any of you agree with me, please speak up.



>Dave Wickard   [phone]    "TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'VE GONE TO
>[e-mail]                       A BAD DOCTOR"
>[e-mail]      "1. After he asks you to cough, he says,
>                                                               'OK, Now my turn."
>                                                         -Dave Letterman
>


##

Subject: Contest
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 16:18:42 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Sam,
 Sounds like a great idea!!!!!
   1.I think there should be 3 categories as you suggested
      a.Object
      b.Image
      c.Animation
  2.I would be willing to send the $5 entry fee
  3.I think the prizes should be posted for each category
  4.I think the best route to go as format is 24-bit for the image and
ham for the animation
  5.I like the idea of only registered users being able to submit!
       TRACE ON!


##

Subject: Re: more on creating anims
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 17:10:20 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>
>
>    Thanks for all the advice on my amount of RAM being the reason the
>    anim wouldn't run.  Yes.. indeed that was the problem.  So......
    [STUFF DELETED]
>    can't locate my files.  I'm sitting in the directory where the
>    files reside and the files definately exist.  Any suggestions?
>    It's frustration spending hours and hours stuck in these
>    technical issues.  I rather be spending my hours in
>    creating animations.
>
>    Thanks again.
>       _____________________________ _____________________________
>       dale r. rogers                Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
>
>
>
>

>
>
    Okay, I don't know about the programs you are using,m but my
suggestion would be to simply make sure that you are rendering in the
IFF format and not the imagine format.

    Seems simple, (it is), but I never overlook the simplist
mistakes since that's usually all it is for most problems.

    Maybe some one else can help you if this is not the problem.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 11:27:33 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

Hi, well I think the contest is a GREAT idea.  I'd be willing to pay 5 or so
bucks to enter, if there were prizes like a FireCraker or something of that
sort.  I think it should be in 3 seperate catagories, as you said.   I think
the prizes should be seperate. i.e. Fist prize for an animation, would be
a firecraker (because there is more work involved in an anim), and say first
prize for the Images catagory would be like Essance, or something to that
effect.  Also, I think if it should be held sometime after the AmigaWorld
contest, since I'm sure a lot of people on here will be busy working on
their AW entries, I know I will.  But, that is up to you I guess.

Anyways, that just my comment on it.  Type to you later.



--
[e-mail] (Michael Linton)
The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 17:28:22 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>First of all, I am making a call for opinions on the contest. Particularly, the following
>questions...
>
>1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?

    Yes.  Of course! However....there needs to be enough time.  For
example the AmigaWorld contest is in October, (not that I have a chance
to win) but something along the line of a couple of months would be
good.  With this in mind, could the same anim or still be used in this
contest, that is: can the submitted work have been in a contest
allready?

>2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would you
>    be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).

    If there were BIGGER prizes, like the firecracker, the $5 would
probably b okay, but what is the money for?

>3. Would you be more willing to pay this  minimal enterance fee if you
>were guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be something
>    on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from Impulse?

    Actually, this would be better than #2.  I for one could use the
textures.  HOWEVER I DON'T THINK OBJECT DISK WOULD BE APPROPRIATE WITH
THE CURRENT CONTEST RULES!      Not that they wouldn't be nice, but it
doesn't make sense.

>4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
>     categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
>     for SEVERAL categories?

    I would say have 3 seperate categories with seperate prizes for
each.  ie: 1st, 2nd and 3rd for each category.
    Also, people should be able to submit 1 (ONE) thing for each
part.  Plus, parts can be intermixed.  ie:  I can make a cool object and
send that in for part one, also I can render a still with the object and
send it in for #2 and finally that still could be part of an anim I send
in for #3.
    Also, stills should be in 24 bit with a preset agreed-upon
resoulutin (like 1024x482).
    Also, when people send in object for part one, an OPTIONAL
still frame for PART 1 (theobj category NOT the still category) should
be able to go with it so that a sample rendering of the object can be
shown in context.


>5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should
>     each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/she
>     already had that product?
>
>
    The prizes should DEFINITELY be PRE-DETERMINED. This is much more
proffesional and would give us something to aim for.  Plus I would guess
that most people who would win 1st place would take the best prize
anyways...(i would).  Just seems better for all if it is pre determined.


>
    Anyways....sounds great !  I guess I better start
rendering.....
>
>
>Dave Wickard   [phone]    "TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'VE GONE TO
>[e-mail]                       A BAD DOCTOR"
>[e-mail]      "1. After he asks you to cough, he says,
>                                                               'OK, Now my turn."
>                                                         -Dave Letterman
>
>

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]
 Famous Rendering quote : "It's not how big your object is...but how you
               use it."



##

Subject: Imagine contest
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 17:46:03 PDT
From: [e-mail]

>  1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?
>  2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would y
ou
>      be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).
>  3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
>      guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be
>  something
>      on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from Impulse?
>  4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
>       categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
>       for SEVERAL categories?
>  5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should

>       each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/s
he
>       already had that product?

In order,
   1. Yes, I would like to participate.
   2. $5 won't kill me, $20 would definitely turn me off.
   3. Sure, unless it's the disk that comes with Understanding Imagine 2.0,
      I have that one :>
   4. I like the Image and Animation catagories.
   5. Assigned. I don't understand how a pool would work either.
Never short on an opinion,
Bill Carey  [e-mail]


##

Subject: RE>CONTEST
Date: 27 May 92 22:36:24 EDT
From: "R.SATOH" <[e-mail]>

Hi this is the first posting here, so hope everything goes well.
About the Imagine Mailing List competition, here's my idea.


> 1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?

     YEP.


> 2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would
>    you be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).

     Thats ok, but I already have Firecracker.  Lets get more sponsor!

> 3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
>    guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be
>    something on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from
>    Impulse?

     Definitely.

> 4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3
>    seperate categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category,
>    or a couple for SEVERAL categories?

     Everything equal in terms of prizes, and seperate catagories are OK.

> 5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or
>     should each position have an assigned prize that the winner could
>     sell if he/she already had that product?

      Later will be better.

This is a great idea. I hope it will be successful in all aspect.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Ro Sato                                                               |
|>INTERNET:[e-mail]                                   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+




##

Subject: READ ME!
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 09:45:54 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!cup.portal.com!Sam_Mayday_Malone writes:

> 1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?

Yes I would.

> 2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would yo
>     be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).

Yes.  That wouldn't be a problem.  If the cost of entry was much
higher than $5.00, that would be a turn-off.

> 3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
>     guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be someth
>     on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from Impulse?

Yes, but I really don't think that Objects would turn me on as I
usually create my own.  Texture maps, Steve's book and other items of
this ilk are more desireable.  How about an Imagine T-Shirt! <grin>

> 4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
>      categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
>      for SEVERAL categories?

I suggest 3 categories and 3 places for each.  That makes 9 winners.

> 5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should
>      each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/sh
>      already had that product?
>

Assigned prizes for each category are a must.  I think free upgrades
from Imagine 1.1 or TS to Imagine 2.0 would be desirable as well as
the Firecrackers.  The Essence package and Steve's book are
desireable prizes as well.  3D fonts are desireable prizes.  Louis
Markoya's Surface Master and Map Master products would also be
desireable prizes.

> About the Contest:
>
> The contest will be judged solely by employees of Impulse.
> Entries will be sent to me and forwarded to Impulse with no name or
> identification of any kind except a number. It is a blind judging.
> All objects and images must be originals. They cannot be available
> from any other source such as FTP, or on any disk, commercial, shareware or P
> The individual MUST (underline that a few times) MUST MUST be a registered
> owner of Imagine or Turbo Silver. If you have not notified Impulse of your
> copy and registered it, do so now...otherwise you are ineligible for any priz
> The individual MUST be an end reader of the Imagine Mailing List in any
> format...be it on a BBS system...a network...or directly via the List itself.
> (This means that if you know of anyone who uses Imagine and would be
>  interested in joining the contest...notify them to GET ON THE LIST!)  :-)

The above seems to sound ok to me.  Someone objected to the part
about contestants being a member of the list.  I think that they
should be as this is (after all) the Imagine Mailing List contest and
not the AmigaWorld Contest.  But I wonder how you are going to be
able to prove that someone does or doesn't read the list.

I think you will have to give this contest some time.  I know I am
currently in the middle of a couple of *paying* projects.  These
projects are taking a priority over such things as contests. <grin>
But then again, you can't cater to everyone so you must set a
deadline.

Also, the animation category is going to be very tricky.  When I
produce animations I don't render them and then make them runable via
disk.  I always output them as 24-bit files and then I either single
frame them to tape or they get recorded to a laser disk and then
dumped to tape.  This process costs some money and for anyone to
submit a reasonable animation, I don't see any alternatives that will
provide the color and speed that dumping to tape provides.  Many of
your members probably will not be able to enter this category due to
the fact they don't have the hardware available to them.  Offering
rendering and single-framing services is a logistical nightmare.

I don't have an answer for you on this one but you should think about
how you want to deal with animations.

Also, I think we should be able to enter multiple entries in each
category.  If I have 10 stills, I should be able to enter 10 of them
in that category.  After all, it's my time right?

As for the ownership issue.  Nothing has been said about who then
owns the objects, scenes, stills and animations that are submitted.
Are they going to be used in advertizing for Impulse?  Are we going
to retain our rights to the stuff?  I think we should keep our rights
to the stuff but I also think that Impulse should be able to use the
winning entries in any advertizing they want.  After all, it will
only help those of us who win.  Much like the Truevision contests.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: Flapping flags, How to?
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 08:16:35 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

Ok experts, here's my latest query, (put on your thinking caps)

What is the most realistic (yet practical) way to make cloth?
I am thinking of an old canvas tent, with drooping canvas, creases,
folds, the whole nine yards (heh heh, nine yards get it?)
I am thinking of Brushmapping some "canvas" picture onto a plane,
maybe applying a ripple effect, But what type of mapping?  Is there a
cloth "texture" I could use?
Has anyone done anything like this?
************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                    [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator           [e-mail] *
* Disclaimer:  Nothing I say means anything to anyone that *
*               might take it to mean something I didn't!  *



##

Subject: READ ME! (fwd)
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 13:00:36 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|
|Also, the animation category is going to be very tricky.  When I
|produce animations I don't render them and then make them runable via
|disk.  I always output them as 24-bit files and then I either single
|frame them to tape or they get recorded to a laser disk and then
|dumped to tape.  This process costs some money and for anyone to
|submit a reasonable animation, I don't see any alternatives that will
|provide the color and speed that dumping to tape provides.  Many of
|your members probably will not be able to enter this category due to
|the fact they don't have the hardware available to them.  Offering
|rendering and single-framing services is a logistical nightmare.
|
|I don't have an answer for you on this one but you should think about
|how you want to deal with animations.

    I agree.  I don't have singleframe recording capability (yet).  So there
    would have to be different divisions of animations.  For instance
    HAM, 24-BIT, HIG-RES, DCTV, single frame, 16mm film.

    Also, I would like to know the judging criteria.  It takes alot
    more that just a "nice" rendering, to make a "good" animation.
    You can produce some beautiful animations with just a few colors,
    the right lighting, camera angles, and timing.  Good animators give a
    scene life, as opposed to just rendering simple scenes that didn't
    take alot of thought.  What would the judges be looking for; blinding
    colors and complicated textures, or sensitive usage of the Stage
    Editor?

|
|Also, I think we should be able to enter multiple entries in each
|category.  If I have 10 stills, I should be able to enter 10 of them
|in that category.  After all, it's my time right?
|
|As for the ownership issue.  Nothing has been said about who then
|owns the objects, scenes, stills and animations that are submitted.
|Are they going to be used in advertizing for Impulse?  Are we going
|to retain our rights to the stuff?  I think we should keep our rights
|to the stuff but I also think that Impulse should be able to use the
|winning entries in any advertizing they want.  After all, it will
|only help those of us who win.  Much like the Truevision contests.


    I would definately WANT to retain ownership of my copyright.
    And also receive credit for my animation in the advertising
    campaign.  The idea is to show the world what an artist can do
    with the Imagine product; not give Impulse a freebie.  The free
    advertising for the artist would be worth allowing Impulse
    unlimited reproduction rights.  But I would want to be able to use
    the animation in my own marketing strategy.





       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers                Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
                                     Internet:
                                     [e-mail]

                                    .






##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 11:34:39 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

-> Animations:   rendered to VHS video tape with Stage setup file and
-> objects               included on disk.

I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of including my objects on
a disk.  The LAST thing I want, is someone just "borrowing" MY objects, or
anyone elses for that matter, after I've spent many long monhts working on
them.  I think Anims should be put onto video tape, but the objects shouldn't
be included, nor should the stage setup.  If your worried about people not
doing the animations in Imagine, well I don't know what we could do about
that.  How about sending in a video tape of yourself working on the
objects. ;)  Just a suggestion.


P.S.  If someone wants to send in their objects, or their scene, then let
them, but I don't think it should be mandatory, that's all.



--
[e-mail] (Michael Linton)
The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 21:06:46 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Michael Linton, and others, expressed concern about the use of
object files submitted to the contest. My concerns are similar.

Here's a suggestion:   The objec category could be judged by looking
                       at submissions consisting of multiple-view
                       renderings of the object and a screen-grab of
                       Imagine's detail editor displaying the object
                       in its best light. (Most of us probably have
                       a utility such as ScreenX, right?)

People who don't mind making their objects PD, could just include it
as well wioth the idea that it may go into the archives at Hubcap.

oh well, another 2 cents.

AP.



##

Subject: Re: README!
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 21:35:20 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Thomas E. Smith [LORAL])

Some of the responces to the contest express concerns about what file type
to render thier animations in, ie. ham, 24-bit iff, DCTV etc because they
don't have the means to record it or they don't have a 24-bit card. People
people, people... You're sending this through e-mail to people who very
propably do have the means to display whatever format you send them. So
preview your animation in what ever format you can see it in, and then
re-render it in high quality 24-bit iff, or DCTV (which is smaller than HAM).

But anyway, I do like the Idea of a contest with the object, picture, and
animation catagories. And I would be glad to send in $5 for my entry.

                                                 Tom the Smith
--
[e-mail]
Loral Space Information Systems Hou.  || Language is a virus from Outter Space!


##

Subject: translucence
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 7:41:53 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dan Drake)

I'm using Imagine 2.0, and I'm trying to get a translucent Lampshade.
I have a lightbulb on the lamp, which I could make a light source.

Correct if I'm wrong, but what I'm looking to do is to set the filter
property of the object.  How execyly does this work?  Is it the higher the
numbers are the more light passes through?  How do I set it if I want the
shade to be an off yellow color?

Thanks,

dan.


##

Subject: Imagine Contest
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 13:26:04 CST
From: [e-mail] (Keith Suderman)

Sam_MayDay_Malone told everyone on the list...

 U> 2)  Entries should be in IFF-24, even if the sender
 U> can't display the image
 U> on his local equipment, he can render it, and that
 U> will even out differences
 U> in the pictures caused by the image format during
 U> judging.

        Hmm, I agree with everything you say except for this point.  Unfortunatley I am unable to display IFF-24 pictures and if I were to enter the contest (I likely won't but thought I'd say this anyway :) I would certainly like to be able to see the final product I was entering.
        Granted there should be no difference (except resolutions) between animations rendered in the different formats, but how many of us have re-rendered something in a higher resolution only to find we wished we had done things slightly different.
        Your point about evening out differences due to image format is a good one, but I would suggest you pick the lowest common denominator, as opposed to the highest.  I beleive this would ensure the fairest judging.

                                                Keith Suderman


--
Reply to [e-mail]


##

Subject: contest
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 13:34:46 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dan Drake)

How is this for an idea.  All of the stills, and animations entered, and
the objects too, be put on tape.  Everyone who enters gets a copy of the tape.
They could be sold as an additional money maker.

just an idea,

dan.


##

Subject: Re: READ ME! (fwd)
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 12:11:44 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

Personally, I think all animtions should be done in HAM, and then played out
of RAM, and recoreded to tape.  It makes more sense to go with what most
people have (HAM), than it is to go with a 24bit anim, put on a SFVTR.  I
don't have a Single Frame VTR, and I'm sure most other people don't.  The
quality of your rendering, and how good it is edited, should have nothing to
do with the judging.  What should count, is original objects, the story
line, complexity of the animation.  Not if it's in 24bit, or if it's in HAM.
I entered a local anim contest, competing against one guy that used a Video
Toaster to render, and a SFVTR to record.  The anim, and the objects were
NOT original, it was stuff included with Lightwave.  I lost by one vote.
Mainly because people were "wow'ed" by the quality of the Toaster's
rendering.  The fact it was easy as hell to make the anim, didn't appear to
be taken into account.  Which really ticked me off, because my animation was
much more "cartoon oriented."  Anyways, that's just another comment on this
whole contest thing.



--
[e-mail] (Michael Linton)
The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



##

Subject: Re: translucence
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 17:03:14 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>I'm using Imagine 2.0, and I'm trying to get a translucent Lampshade.
>I have a lightbulb on the lamp, which I could make a light source.
>
>Correct if I'm wrong, but what I'm looking to do is to set the filter
>property of the object.  How execyly does this work?  Is it the higher the
>numbers are the more light passes through?  How do I set it if I want the
>shade to be an off yellow color?
>
>Thanks,
>
>dan.
>
>
    I too have just made a lamp shade and have not been able to get
the look that I truly want.  The problem is, the filter setting DO
affect the translucency like you say, but it is EVEN across the object.

    Anyways here's how to make glass and so on :

        Make your object, and turn the SHINYNESS slider down to
zero!  If you do not take shinyness down all the way, you will not get
glass.

    Now, bring up all the filter buttons, a value of all 255,255,255
will make you object perfectly clear..  I usually use around 220 or so.
(Experimentation is best).  Also, change the index of refraction if you
want your object to appear to bend the light.  A value of 1.4-2.2 is
pretty standard.

    Presto... you should have a "clear" object.

    For the lamp shade, you would NOT want any index of refraction
other than =1 unless your doing funky things with it!

    Also, a possible solution which I have not looked into yet is to
create a black and white grey scale brush map.  Make the brush map have
lots of "dots" or circles of grey to white.  Then map this onto the
shade as a filter map.  This SHOULD give the filtering effect of a real
lampshade with the little dots with some light comeing through in some
places more than others and so.  blah , blah blah....etc...

    Hope this helps.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: translucence
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 10:07:23 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|I'm using Imagine 2.0, and I'm trying to get a translucent Lampshade.
|I have a lightbulb on the lamp, which I could make a light source.
|
|Correct if I'm wrong, but what I'm looking to do is to set the filter
|property of the object.  How execyly does this work?  Is it the higher the
|numbers are the more light passes through?  How do I set it if I want the
|shade to be an off yellow color?

    The way I understand the filter field to work is that you can
    control the amount of light that gets through by setting the
    values.  The higher the number, the more transparent (I think.  It
    might be the opposite.  I'm getting familiar with it now myself.)
    If you keep all of the RGB values equal, then the colors of the
    objects showing through will not be affected. In this case your
    just controlling the amount of light that will get through.  If
    the RGB values are biased toward a specfic color then some light
    will get through biased toward that color.

    I haven't mastered this by any means.  But I did sucessfully
    create a yellow transparent sphere floating through space in front
    of a picture frame.  As the yellow sphere passes in front of the
    frame.  The frame is seen, refracted, and its colors are not
    modified.  It is quite a nice animation.  I wanted the sphere to
    be yellow, yet transparent.  I achieved this by putting a light
    source behind the sphere.  This enabled me to see its yellow tint
    due to the light passing through it.  I didn't see anything until
    I put the light source behind the sphere.  An artist friend
    explained that I couldn't see the sphere's color because there was
    no light to bring it out.  The only reason you can seen stained
    glass in a room is because of the light shining through it.
    Made sense.  I tried it and poof... a yellow sphere.

    I'm sure the method would be similar to acheive your lampshade
    effect.  Good luck.  Let us know how you did it once you acheive
    the desired effect.

    Dale



       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers                Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
                                     Internet:
                                     [e-mail]

                                    .








##

Subject: Re: Anims in contest
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 16:01:06 MDT
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

    Hows this for an idea? Don't have an Animation catagory. Everyone can
render to 24-bit, plus people with 68000s won't feel left out. I'd much prefer
a contest with 2 or 3 catagories for images. For example catagories like
PhotoRealistism (a real world scene), and Fantasy (anything else).

    Chris



##

Date: Fri, 29 May 1992 15:52:39 -0600
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

    Whelp here it is in all it's glory. Much as I like Imagine it's a
real love-hate relationship. I hope this ends up in Impulses hands somehow.
I think there's alot of good ideas here and just becuase my list is long
doen't mean I hate Imagine or won't upgrade if stuff isn't implementated.
This is like the title says a wishlist. If I could have it all- Imagine
would have all these features.
    Also feel free to correct me if I've overlooked something that
Imagine already does, or can be done in a different way.

                        Imagine 3.0 Wishlist Key:

    ! MUST have
    * Would be great, but I don't really expect it
    # Personel preference? Maybe its just me.
 LW = LightWave

OS STUFF

    File notification for renderings, objects, etc.
    Multi-task different editors
  # Have sub-projects differ more than just rendering mode
  ! Use ASL requestor (MFR)
        Allow multiple selecting for loading objects
    Make screen front-back gadget more easier to hit
  # Keyboard equivs without quailifier
  ! Different color scheme
    Support larger than 640x400, use new ECS Denise modes (ie use 2.0 screen
        mode style requestor)
  ! No more title picture!
  ! Get rid of 1.3 hard-coded drawers, make user definable
    Interlace option in project editor
    Make 2.0 3-D style complete
  * "Hot-links" for objects toggle (if altered in detail, changes in Stage)
  # Remove .imp and .pix suffixes
    Automaticly CD to objects/ when of project when opened
  ! For ALL requestors have hitting return (or tab) scroll thru all choices
  * AREXX!!
        at very least for Stage and Action editors
    Make Imagine a Public Screen
  # Return = YES for requestors like 'Overwrite object'


PREFERENCES
  ! RGB sliders change values!
    Make GUI more pleasing to use
  # Comments default to menu item name
    Have gadgets be complete macros (ie: BOX gadget makes a 2 face plane
        and extrudes it to be a cube)

DETAIL
    Editing in prespective window
    Extrude, sweep, (mold) on any selectable axis
  * Moving preview (ala LW)
  ! Surfaces!!! A database of surfaces is used much like LW so if you want
        to change the metal for the 50 pieces of your spaceship you only
        have to alter the one surface.
  * Multiple sided polygons! (clearer, faster wireframe, renders faster)
    Lasso or drag 3 pts for add face, lasso or drag 2 for add edge
    Have arrows move view depending on which triview. Like LW again, if
        pointer is in the top view then the arrow keys move the view along
        the Y and X axises, Z and X for the front view etc.
    Fit style (LW) command
    Multi-select thru Find By Requestor
  ! Start cursor in object name and scroll thru for attributes requestor
  ! Have coordinates reflect object's position when moving, etc. rather than
        the pointer's position
    Snap To Axis/Object feature, selected object, point, etc. will snap to
        the axis of the selected object. Great for easily lining things up.
    Hide Objects feature: will not render object, nor draw it's wireframe.
        Make like Fastdraw with it set to Hide until 1st face is added, so
        then clearing the workspace if fast and easy.
    Render points and edges. Starfields, particles, lines much easier.
    Find by Requestor: allow ordering, show total pts, faces, edges- same
        for Stage editor but show pts, faces, etc for cycle objects too.
    When PHONG is turned off and then on don't clear out all Phong Dams in
        object. Reason: when loading attributes of a non-phonged object to
        a phong object, you lose all your dams.
    Load other object formats.
    Optimize function: goes thru a optimizes object to fewest # of faces
        needed. Slice often makes overly complex objects.
    Better Slice.

  * TOOLS
        Freehand draw, Arc, Circle, Box, etc. I'd love to have some dpaint
        like tools to make objects with. Could make them so that they have
        outline (edges) and filled (faces) modes. Instead of using the
        primitive plane, you just drag out a filled rectangle! If you need
        an arch, drag it out instead of cutting up and scaling a disk! These
        would really double the power of the Detail Editor to me. Makes me
        almost want to switch to Real3D. :-)

    BRUSHMAPS
      ! Support JPEG, DCTV
      * More intutive placement? I agree its better than say LW is.
        Follow objects contours. If you model a snake and map scales, the
        scales twist with the snake's body. I think Caligari2 does this?

    TEXTURES
      ! More, more, more!
        Commission Steve Worley and Glenn Lewis!

CYCLE
    Be able to animate just wireframe links in 1 of tri-views. (Fast!)
    With Make have option of frame intervals like in Stage
    Allow moving objects around without scaling!

ACTION
  ! Better intergration with Stage Editor (too much loading going back and
        forth)
    Cut, copy, paste of bars
    Drag bars lengths (no more hit Info then type in start frame & end frame)
    Make lights actor color different and cycle objects
  ! More FX!, unlimited for each actor
    When more frames are added ask if you want animation 'stretched' to fit
        new # of frames, same for shrinking. This way you can make your
        motion smoother if you didn't have enough frames for your anim and
        not have to do everything over.
    Click on name of object, etc. for assigning paths, objects to track, etc

STAGE
  ! Don't "lock" grouped objects, behave like in detail editor. I really do
        not like this! The cycle editor can not do everything I need so I'd
        like to still have the grouping control like in the detail editor.
        Currently I have to load each object in seperately. Which leads to:
  ! Drag, lasso, etc. and Select All
  ! Cut, copy, paste. Ever loaded 50 different objects since you didn't want
        them grouped?
  ! Old Turbo Silver style tracking (or click on camera, Amiga-T, then click on
        object- same for lights, etc)
  * Be able to look thru any object or light's alignment in perspective
        window
    Check staging to see if object is in for more than one frame to reduce
        the amount of loading from disk (same for when rendering)
  # Default to perspective camera view
  * Scatter feature, randomly places selected objects. definable range and
        axies to scatter on. Choice of solid scatter (makes a solid sphere
        or circle) or edge scatter in which objects are only scattered
        around on the edge of the sphere, etc. Good for stars, asteriods,
        planet surfaces, etc.
  ! Continue drawing objects when editing spline paths
    Have prespective window show cut off with lines for odd camera settings
        (like widescreen)
  ! Scale brushmaps as in detail
  * Morph brushmaps and objects of different pts/faces

    For All Make Anims: (Stage & Cycle)
        Play in reverse
      ! Show FPS
      # FullScreen HiRes option
        Ping-pong option
        Save out as ANIM file

RENDERING
    Iconify to small bar on WB with %, etc.
    Faster
    Better HAM output
  ! Better ambient lighting, new true distant light type with parallel rays

QUICK RENDERS
    More intutive light placement
  # Line scanning down prespective window to show currently line being
        rendered rather than &


NEW EDITORS

  * MORPH EDITOR
        This would be an editor in which you load and object and then can
            use all the point transformation tools on. You make "key" object
            morphs that can be saved out plus it has:
        Onion skinning
        Make Preview Anim
        Load Pose (provided it has same # of points, faces, etc)

  * ATTRBIUTES EDITOR
        This editor could work several ways for it's layout. The idea is
            to have the attributes requestor and some sort of primitive
            shown in color. All manipulations on the basic attributes
            (Not textures or brushmaps) are shown in real-time. Ex: if
            you move the RGBs from white to red, the primitive cycles
            thru the colors in real-time like the current color box does.
            Some Mac 3-D programs already have this great feature, even
            for textures!
        The layout could be on a EHB screen, or perhaps a HiRes 8bit
            screen :). Maybe the primitive on a Laced HAM with a HiRes
            half screen below it with the controls. I don't really know.
        Other options for it:
            Save & load attributes (obviously)
            Quickrender
            Choice of primitives in view (Sphere, cube, cone, etc)
          * Real-time render textures?!?!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Chris Hurtt



##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date:     Wed, 27 May 1992 11:50:37 -0400
From: John J Humpal <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] writes:
>
> 1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?

    Yes.

> 2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would you
>     be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).

    No. Probably not. (Maybe for an 040 board...? ;-)

> 3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
>     guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be something
>     on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from Impulse?

    No. Probably not.

> 4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
>      categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
>      for SEVERAL categories?'

    I think several categories would be more appropriate.

> 5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should
>      each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/she
>      already had that product?

    Don't know about this one.  Since I already own an FC and have only
one monitor, a second FC wouldn't do me much good.  On the other hand,
allowing the winners to divvy things up could get sticky.  Lots of potential
conflicts...

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer




##

Subject: ReadMe!
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 15:32:13 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Aragorn J Mallory)

I would be very interested in a rendering contest and have actualy tried to get a few
going in my local area, but not much interest around here.  (Dayton, Ohio)

Having prizes is great and I would be willing to pay a small fee to participate.  I
would also enjoy getting somthing special for just entering, ie a few textures
or somthing like that.

Having just one contest for object creation would be fine with me.  But I also think
that having one for Images and one for animations isn't a bad idea eather.

I guess that having the prizes already assined would be best.  If you don't like it
you cna trade or sell it.  I would love to compete for a Firecracker!

In the Object contest I would like to see a type or a kind of object to be made.
The contests that I tried to get going had a topic like Jack-o-lanters or X-mas
tree decorations and the best and most creative won the contest.

Aragorn.  ([e-mail])

I Imagine therefor I am!


##

Subject: image
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 22:05:12 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

did anyone else see the april issue of Videography magazine ?
there is an incredible flower image by Stephen Menzies, rendered with
Octree's Caligari. This is a NICE image ! very uncomputerlike; soft,
subtle lighting and colors, very organic...makes me almost want to
try Caligari Broadcast :-)

oh, also an article on Mr. Menzies, as well as other Amiga users....

kevin
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Webbing
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 10:05:07 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Bandy michael carl 792-6000x3351)

I'm trying to join two cylinders so that there's a smooth transition
from one to the next.  Like the webbing between your thumb and forefinger.
How can I easily get the two objects to flow one to the next?

The application is the tomahawk missile that has an air intake in the
bottom that is a smaller diameter cylindlical tube at about a 30 degree
offset from the main missile body with a smooth transition.

                Mike



##

Subject: Imagine Contest
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 08:56:59 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!f710.n348.z1.fidonet.org!KSuderman (Keith Suderman) writes:

...stuff about not being able to disply 24bit IFFs and that a lower
common denominator type of image should be used for judging.

I don't agree at all.  You can render the image in 16 color if you
wish at your home for viewing.  Once you are satisfied with the
results in the color resolution you are capable of viewing, switch to
full 24-bit for submission.  It can only be better.  It doesn't make
sense for anyone running a contest to want HAM images.  After all,
HAM images will not make very good advertising material.

I say we stick with the 24bit IFF images for submission or that we
move to JPEG images for submission.  Of course there would be some
loss in a JPEG image.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: Re: image
Date: Sat, 30 May 1992 14:43:06 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

[e-mail] (Kevin Kodama) writes:


>did anyone else see the april issue of Videography magazine ?
>there is an incredible flower image by Stephen Menzies, rendered with
>Octree's Caligari. This is a NICE image ! very uncomputerlike; soft,
>subtle lighting and colors, very organic...makes me almost want to
>try Caligari Broadcast :-)

>oh, also an article on Mr. Menzies, as well as other Amiga users....

>kevin
>[e-mail]

well I certainly appreciate your comment , kevin. Actually the pic in the mag
was just a test of a group of objects totalling about 15,000 polys. I have
two 150,000 polygon scenes now that I have rendered some pictures from and
am trying to get them to an ftp site but I don't have direct ftp access.
The images that I now have are in an exhibition of 18 computer artists that
starts today , here in Montreal and includes inhouse work from SoftImage
as well as inhouse work from Taarna Studios (where i've been hanging out
the last 6 months or so). Taarna is a proprietary system and runs on SGI
machines (some may be familiar with a character animation of a piano player
made sometime ago called "Tony De Peltrie'). Anyway, I have 2 images from
Caligari printed 14x20 , and a slide show running on an sgi indigo elan of
work that I have done at Taarna (mostly mythological animals..lions, dragons
gargoyls and mixes of them.
All the objects in the pics I'm trying to ul were made with the FFD lattices
of the new Cal-B without point editing. The test flower that you saw is
actually an eight sided cone that was twisted around by dragging the control
points on the lattice. Auto subdivision and auto smoothing routines took
care of the rest. Caligari also has uv mapping where the texture is not a
projection but instead follows the topology of the object (and you don't
have any axis to play with, you just assign the texture).
I would like to ul the pics to hubcap if possible, maybe someone with ftp
access could help me out.

-steve.
--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265


##

Subject: Re: READ ME! (fwd)
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 09:01:43 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca!linton (Michael Linton) writes:

> Personally, I think all animtions should be done in HAM, and then played out
> of RAM, and recoreded to tape.  It makes more sense to go with what most
> people have (HAM), than it is to go with a 24bit anim, put on a SFVTR.  I
> don't have a Single Frame VTR, and I'm sure most other people don't.  The
> quality of your rendering, and how good it is edited, should have nothing to
> do with the judging.  What should count, is original objects, the story
> line, complexity of the animation.  Not if it's in 24bit, or if it's in HAM.
> I entered a local anim contest, competing against one guy that used a Video
> Toaster to render, and a SFVTR to record.  The anim, and the objects were
> NOT original, it was stuff included with Lightwave.  I lost by one vote.
> Mainly because people were "wow'ed" by the quality of the Toaster's
> rendering.  The fact it was easy as hell to make the anim, didn't appear to
> be taken into account.  Which really ticked me off, because my animation was
> much more "cartoon oriented."  Anyways, that's just another comment on this
> whole contest thing.

Once again the reason that this contest is even possible is probably
because Impulse is looking for some real quality animation and stills
for future advertising purposes.  To allow for HAM animations and
renderings will do *nothing* to advance either the sales of Imagine,
the Amiga and other related items or to wow people who are viewing
the demos created from this contest.

I think that HAM animations should probably be allowed for submission
purposes and judging.  From there, the winning animations should be
re-rendered in 24-bit and sent out to tape for final disposition.
The single framing would have to be setup by Impulse finally I
imagine.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: Re: Imagine Contest
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 15:21:44 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

That's a good point.  I entered the AMUG anim contest on tuesday, and I think 99% of the people were so WOW'ed by the Video Toaster stuff, that they didn't even bother to think of the work involved (and to tell you the truth, the VT stuff was pretty poor as far as any kind of story, or anything really hard to animate), in putting together an animation with character movements, and such, like I did.  Granted mine wasn't 24bit, it was lores HAM, granted I didn't have enough time to put audio on the tape, but still.  Fly spaceships are easy as pie, making things jump, and ride around is quite difficult.  Needless to say (so why am I saying it), I lost by one vote.  Which doesn't suprise me because the people with the equiptment usually win.
  Type to you later...




--
Reply to [e-mail]


##

Subject: 3.0 wishlist
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 12:24:45 -0700
From: [e-mail] (66291000)

Here's my one biggest wish.  I'd like it for the project I'm on now,
but I'll be done before 3.0 comes out.

I am creating an instruction sheet for a toy called Gearios.  They're
like big Legos and they also have gears.  The blocks and gears are
fairly complex (.iob files are about 20-30K each).  And some assemblies
have an upwards of 70 blocks in them, mostly identical to each other.

Is there some way to optimize the stage/rendering engine so that only
one copy of each type of block needs to be loaded?  I lose 2-3megs
each time I enter the stage editor.  Renderings often take me down to
100K free (out of 14Megs!).  Is this possible?

    - Stefon


##

Subject: Re: READ ME! (fwd)
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 12:31:06 -0700
From: [e-mail] (66291000)

> I think that HAM animations should probably be allowed for submission
> purposes and judging.  From there, the winning animations should be
> re-rendered in 24-bit and sent out to tape for final disposition.

> [e-mail]

I think the concern about rendering format is that HAM animations are
aesthetically disadvantaged when up against 24-bit single frame and
even DCTV anims.  It's likely, in other words, that no HAM animation
would win an opportunity to go 24-bit.

What if everyone submitted HAM and then the winners were put out on
24-bit?  That way the judging is more even-handed, and Impulse gets
impressive demos.  Everybody benefits.

    - Stefon


##

Subject: Re: Contest
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 18:46:24 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dan Drake)

Why don't we have seperate catagories for ham, dctv, and 24bit?
If there are not enough entries in a catagory, then merge some together.
I don't think that it would be a problem though.

There are huge differences when doing realtime animations in ham and dctv.
An animation that plays smoothly in ham, may be a bit flaky in dctv
depending on how busy it is, and the size of the deltas.

My opinion on the advertising is  "where did this come from?"  As I see it,
this contest is just something that Dave (??) thought would be cool to do.
(And fun in my opinion :-)  Anyway, if people have really nice looking ham
images, then that is pretty important because everyone with an Amiga can view
the anims/images.

Just remember that this is just a really cool fun thing, and not a matter
of life and death.

dan.


##

Subject: Re: image
Date: Sat, 30 May 92 18:50:45 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Dan Drake)

> as well as inhouse work from Taarna Studios (where i've been hanging out
> the last 6 months or so). Taarna is a proprietary system and runs on SGI
> machines (some may be familiar with a character animation of a piano player
> made sometime ago called "Tony De Peltrie'). Anyway, I have 2 images from
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'd kiss the floor of the place where this was created.  Could you send me some
of the dust that collects on the monitors?  "Tony" is just about the most
incredible animation that I've ever seen.

> Caligari printed 14x20 , and a slide show running on an sgi indigo elan of
> work that I have done at Taarna (mostly mythological animals..lions, dragons
> gargoyls and mixes of them.

dan.

(I'm not kidding about sending the dust either)
Dan Drake
129 Bell Park Dr.
Pgh, PA 15229




##

Subject: $5 entrance fee.
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 01:50:49 GMT
From: uunet!bknight.jpr.com!yury@email (Yury German)

    I know that instead of the $5 fee I can propose something else.
How about making a pro tape and selling it to the masses. You do not need
major advertisements out of it and you can recoop your costs in no time
with the tape. Ofcourse all entrance would get it... and for that the $5
is feasable???
    What do you all think of that idea????

    _____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                     |
   | Yury German                  yury@bknight or [e-mail]   |
   | Blue-Knight Productions      GENIE EMAIL: Blue-Knight               |
   | [phone]                (Graphic Design and Video Productions) |
   | [phone]                P.O. Box 985, Queens, New York, 11354  |
   |_____________________________________________________________________|



##

Subject: Re: contest
Date: Sun, 31 May 92 1:17:46 EDT
From: Jason Andreas <[e-mail]>

My opinion on how prizes should be awarded is this.
Each category has it's prize(s), let the winners figure out if they
want to trade with one another for a prize.  Brad did this when he one
the first badge contest with "The Sentinel".   He already had a 2000, but
needed an 020 card.  The second place winner had a 1000, and wanted a
2000.  Things worked out fine.   Letting the winners choose from a pool
of prizes could be messy.



##

Subject: Re: Webbing
Date: Sun, 31 May 92 08:49:51 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)


>
>I'm trying to join two cylinders so that there's a smooth transition
>from one to the next.  Like the webbing between your thumb and
forefinger.
>How can I easily get the two objects to flow one to the next?
>

        Ha!  A good rule of thumb (no pun intended) is that anything
worthwhile is almost never easy.  Still, you CAN do what you want.

>
>The application is the tomahawk missile that has an air intake in the
>bottom that is a smaller diameter cylindlical tube at about a 30 degree
>offset from the main missile body with a smooth transition.
>
>                               Mike
>

        Okay, the way i figure it you have 2 choices.

        1]  Make your object as normal in the detail editor, and to make
sure that the parts that fuse are exactly the same.

        Probably impossible for your application.

        I HAVE succesfully fused simple objects into one object over an
animation where i had about 9 cubes fly together to form one.  The
trick was to add the cube and to use the translate from the transform
axis function to move it EXACTLY the width of the cube over and so on...

        2]  What I would recommend and do would be to use the FORMS
editor.  This is exactly what the editor is made for and what you're
trying to make shouldn't be that difficult.

        As far as learning the forms editor, I reccomend reading the 2.0
manual.  (also, i reccomend using the 2.0 forms editor!) Despite what
most people say about the manual, I thought the section on the forms
editor very good.  Between that and some self experimentation I learned
it rather quickly.  If that doesn't do it I would also reccomend Mr.
Worley's book "understanding imagine 2.0".

        Anyways, the forms editor is all you need.  Good luck!

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]





##

Subject: Re: image
Date: Sun, 31 May 1992 14:38:10 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

I have just been inform by my sysop that I know have a brand new ftp
connection and he'll walk me thru it if need be. When I get the pics up
on hubcap I'll let everyone know.

I wish to thank everyone who offered to help me out with this. I appreciate
the response.

-stephen
--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265


##

Subject: Re: image
Date: Sun, 31 May 1992 14:54:10 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

[e-mail] (Dan Drake) writes:

>> as well as inhouse work from Taarna Studios (where i've been hanging out
>> the last 6 months or so). Taarna is a proprietary system and runs on SGI
>> machines (some may be familiar with a character animation of a piano player
>> made sometime ago called "Tony De Peltrie'). Anyway, I have 2 images from
>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I'd kiss the floor of the place where this was created.  Could you send me some
>of the dust that collects on the monitors?  "Tony" is just about the most
>incredible animation that I've ever seen.

>> Caligari printed 14x20 , and a slide show running on an sgi indigo elan of
>> work that I have done at Taarna (mostly mythological animals..lions, dragons
>> gargoyls and mixes of them.

>dan.

>(I'm not kidding about sending the dust either)
>Dan Drake
>129 Bell Park Dr.
>Pgh, PA 15229

As I mentioned to dan, Taarna is in the process of relocating and renovating
after a huge fire that burnt it down a couple of months ago. Everthing
was backed up though as well as the storyboards for the new inhouse demo
that we've just started to work on. So there really isn't any monitor
dust at this moment:) , just a nice green park in the center of Montreal
where the building once stood (can you imagine a 6 processor VGX falling
3 stories in a ball of flames:). Anyway, we're going to have have a bigger
place and a buch of new indio elan's and crimsons and I've enjoyed being
able to work with my 040 amiga in the last while just doing 100% what I
want to do..

btw, dan..I do have one of "tony's " hands in my directory at Taarna :)
if I remember right , it was built in polys (2,500) and not patches.

-stephen
--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265


##

Subject: Re: Contest
Date: Sun, 31 May 92 08:35:12 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!cs.pitt.edu!dan (Dan Drake) writes:

> Why don't we have seperate catagories for ham, dctv, and 24bit?
> If there are not enough entries in a catagory, then merge some together.
> I don't think that it would be a problem though.

The only time that a rendering problem is encountered is when
animation is involved.  There should be no problem at all rendering
still images in 24bit for submission.  When it comes to animation, we
have to consider several different items.  The most obvious being
speed of playback and smoothness of motion.  In most cases, unless
the animation is single framed, the motion will be terribly slow or
jerkey.  I like to use long sweeping camera moves.  This does NOT
translate to HAM or DCTV RAM animation very well at all.  The only
*real* solution is to accept animations on tape or to offer the
single framing and dumping to tape service.

> There are huge differences when doing realtime animations in ham and dctv.
> An animation that plays smoothly in ham, may be a bit flaky in dctv
> depending on how busy it is, and the size of the deltas.

My point exactly.

> My opinion on the advertising is  "where did this come from?"  As I see it,
> this contest is just something that Dave (??) thought would be cool to do.
> (And fun in my opinion :-)  Anyway, if people have really nice looking ham
> images, then that is pretty important because everyone with an Amiga can view
> the anims/images.

Where did it come from?  It came from me.  I don't know of any
company sponsering any computer graphics contests that don't plan on
using the submissions and winners as advertising fodder.  Just look
at it from Impulses point of view.  Wouldn't it make more sense to
have a contest that can net in increased future sales and great
demos?  Of course it does.  I don't know for sure if this is why
Impulse is offering up the prizes but it's my guess that this is the
reasoning.

> Just remember that this is just a really cool fun thing, and not a matter
> of life and death.
>
> dan.

Of course it's not a matter of life and death but it's also a bit
more important than a really cool fun thing.  If it were just a
really cool fun thing then we wouldn't have to pay a submission fee
and we wouldn't have a need for $800.00 prizes...

-- Bob


 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Sun, 31 May 92 16:35:00 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Guy Botero)

Isn't one of the main purposes of this contest to stimulate the amount of
Pd objects out there?  Sure you're sending in something that you've spent
a lot of time on.  But what do you think other people will be doing?


##

Subject: Ray-tracing Glass in 1.1
Date: 31 May 1992 21:00:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (michael neylon)

Using Imagine 1.1, i constructed a simple drinking glass (with some thickness)
and set the attributes using s.worley's on hubcap.  I then created a cylinder
of water that just fit inside the glass, and set its attributes to water
using steve's.  In the first render i forgot to turn off Phong shading, and i
got a nice BLACK object (not what i wanted).  So, turning off Phong on both
objects, i rerendered the scene.  The desired effect came, however, most of
the bottom half of the glass was still very black.  I currently had 3 light
sources, located approx. 120 degrees apart from each other, so I wasnt
expecting much in the way of shadows.  So i set a light source, reduced in
intensity to 155, directly above the glass and water, maybe 1 and a half
times the height of the glass.  Rerendering, i still got the same shadows as
before, yet the presence of the light was obvious in other parts of the
scene (a metal surface reflected this light back to the camera.)  I
really do not want this shadow (if that is what it is).  What could be the
problem?  Thanx..
Mike Neylon  aka Masem the Thermo God   [e-mail]
    "[Comparing French and American wines] is like Star Trek the
    Next Generation.  It has all the essence of the orignal series
    but will never be as good as it"  Wayne's World (the movie)


##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 92 09:19:37 EDT
From: [e-mail]

The worst problem with NOT charging for such a contest is a problem we've seen
at Amiga Atlanta with running contests, is that NO ONE ENTERS!

I think that we should have some kind of small fee, better prizes, and hopefully
some real competition.

Moo
Frank Branham


##

Subject: Re: READ ME! (fwd)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 92 11:22:55 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

> I think that HAM animations should probably be allowed for
> submission purposes and judging.  From there, the winning
> animations should be   re-rendered in 24-bit and sent out to tape
> for final disposition.     The single framing would have to be
> setup by Impulse finally I        imagine.

I agree.  But as I said in my last message, your looking at a heck of a lot
of floppies.  The anim I was thinking of entering, will be close to 1200
frames  when completed.  Even on an '030 that'll take a LONG time to render,
not to mention eat up what little space I have left on my HD.  And as I said
before, what about all the 68000 users out there?  Their certianly not going
to be able to enter, if they have to re-render their entire anim in 24bit.
I agree with you as far as the images contest goes, 24bit all the way, but
the animation contest... No.


--
[e-mail] (Michael Linton)
The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



##

Subject: Re: Imagine Contest
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 92 11:15:19 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

[e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm) writes:
>
> I don't agree at all.  You can render the image in 16 color if you
> wish at your home for viewing.  Once you are satisfied with the
> results in the color resolution you are capable of viewing, switch to
> full 24-bit for submission.  It can only be better.  It doesn't make
> sense for anyone running a contest to want HAM images.  After all,
> HAM images will not make very good advertising material.
>
> I say we stick with the 24bit IFF images for submission or that we
> move to JPEG images for submission.  Of course there would be some
> loss in a JPEG image.
>
> -- Bob
>
I agree for the image catagory.  But, the animation catagory is something
else.  First off, I don't have enough HD space to render a decent anim in
24bit.  Second, who is going to send in 40 disks of animation still files?
Even Jpeged, your looking at a  heck of a lot of floppies.  The only other
way to do it, is to send in your objects, and your scene and get someone
else to render it, and put it onto video tape.  Which is something I'M not
going to do.  I think the DCTV idea is better, but still, I don't have a
DCTV, or a SFVTR.  Take the people with 68000's.  It'll take them 3 months
to render a couple of dozen hires 24bit files.  I guess it's the same ol'
thing.  The people with money and equiptment always seem to come out on top,
which isn't far.



--
[e-mail] (Michael Linton)
The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



##

Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 92 11:02:51 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

[e-mail] (Alan Price) writes:

>
> Michael Linton, and others, expressed concern about the use of
> object files submitted to the contest. My concerns are similar.
>
> Here's a suggestion:   The objec category could be judged by looking
>                        at submissions consisting of multiple-view
>                        renderings of the object and a screen-grab of
>                        Imagine's detail editor displaying the object
>                        in its best light. (Most of us probably have
>                        a utility such as ScreenX, right?)
>
> People who don't mind making their objects PD, could just include it
> as well wioth the idea that it may go into the archives at Hubcap.
>
> oh well, another 2 cents.
>
> AP.
>


That's a great idea!  Although, we'd have to get Impulses permission to
screen grab the Imagine screen... But, I'm all for doing that.

Type to you later.


--
[e-mail] (Michael Linton)
The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



##

Subject: PPS 68040 Zeus card
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 92 15:39:22 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

This is not a commercial announcement and I know many of you have expressed
an interest....

Well I got my 28MHz 68040 Zeus card last week and it is a screamer. It has
32MB of 60ns RAM installed (room for upto 64MB) and a fast SCSI-2
controller. It had a couple problems when delivered but thats what beta
testing is all about.  I was told that the other beta site installed without
a hitch. As for speed increases....WOW. The only definite comparison I have
so far is a very complex LightWave scene which took 9.5 hours on my 25MHz
68030 (2630).  Zeus did it 5 times faster (1 hour and 52 minutes). Disk
speed is also blazing even with SCSI-1 drives. I will post more details in
the future but if anyone has some benchmarks they would like me to run,
please send them to me and I will post the results. Anyone have any detailed
CPU and/or HD benchmarking programs? I have dperf2 but thats it.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: contest
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 92 18:34:53 GMT-0500
From: Scott Matthew Krehbiel <[e-mail]>

Isn't that IFF to DCTV converter Public Domain??
If so, then people could render in 24-bit, and use the converter
to create DCTV images, whether they have DCTV or not, then send
in those images separately ( since I always find that an anim
file is 1.5 times the size of the separate images ).

Also, does 2.0 render differently than 1.1?  I know that 1.1
renders in 24-bit, then converts down to ham.  So on 1.1, doing
ham images would be no faster in rendering than doing 24-bit.

Since the Impulse people most probably have access to a fast
machine, they could load the DCTV frames and view the anim
on their own.

Also, I've found a neat trick that it appears nobody has tried.
Try loading a bunch of frames into DPaint ( I use 3 ), into the
EXPANDED anim mode.  On my 68000, I'm probably near 20 fps.
I'd love to see what an accelerated machine would do when
it doesn't have to worry about .anim processing.
( When DPaint III is in expanded mode, it doesn't use .anim
compression, so playback is nice and fast, regardless of
the amount of motion.  Of course, you need large amounts of
memory to fit any reasonable # of frames )

Just a thought.
Scott


##

Subject: HellSpawn.lha
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 92 18:26:10 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Denton)


   Well now that im on the imagine mailing list.... I just released another
rendering!!   HellSpawn.lha is on hubcap.clemson.edu, amiga.physik.unzich.ch
and others... With others such as NghtPrey,BeautifulBlue,Tryell,NghtWind,
DragonDreams, Castlrok.. lets just say im flooding the net.. hehehehhe
  Take care! snag em and tell me if you like em!

                             [e-mail]


##

Subject: DCTV anim
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 92 12:51:25 GMT-0500
From: Scott Matthew Krehbiel <[e-mail]>

OK, I timed my anim that runs so nicely, and here's the info:
its a 640*200*3 50 frame animation, and in uncompressed form,
it runs at 16 frames per second ( OK I admit, that's a long
way off from 20 frames per second, but it's still smooth )

just wanted to clear up the previous info.
Scott


##

Subject: Re:  translucence
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 92 19:55:05 EDT
From: F. Felixberto <[e-mail]>

>From [e-mail] Fri May 29 08:32:15 1992

>I'm using Imagine 2.0, and I'm trying to get a translucent Lampshade.
>I have a lightbulb on the lamp, which I could make a light source.

>Correct if I'm wrong, but what I'm looking to do is to set the filter
>property of the object.  How execyly does this work?  Is it the higher the
>numbers are the more light passes through?  How do I set it if I want the
>shade to be an off yellow color?

>Thanks,
>
>dan.

    Actually, I think you'd get better results by making the lampshade
a fog object.  I'd use filter if I wanted transparency, and I if I wanted to
show realistic refraction.  If all I needed was translucency, fog works just
fine.  It has the advantage of working just fine in scanline rendering while
true transparency only works in raytrace.

    You are going to have to experiment with fog length to get the effect
you need but I'd suggest starting with a value about equal to the radius of
the lampshade.  If the result is too translucent, just reduce the fog length.
If too opaque, increase fog length.

    Hope I was helpful.

                        felix


##

Subject: Re:  more on creating anims (fwd)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 92 9:07:56 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

Forwarded message:
|From uucp Wed May 27 14:41 CDT 1992
|From: Udo K Schuermann <b24a![e-mail]>
|Date: Wed, 27 May 92 15:36:51 -0400
|Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
|To: [e-mail]
|Subject: Re:  more on creating anims
|
|Are your files in a standard Amiga IFF format?  I don't think either
|BuildANIM or MakeANIM will handle IFF24 files or RGBN files.  I've
|used both programs quite successfully, so I know they do work.
|
|BuildANIM, by the way, closes its screen while building the animation.

    Thanks for all of the information I received about using BuildAnim
    (animBuild?).  It appears that indeed I think I was using the
    wrong format.  I used ADPro to convert the files to IFF HAM and
    BuildANIM worked just fine (I could have sworn those were IFF
    files already).  I'm animating again.  Now I'm trying to figure
    out how to write an AREXX program to automatically convert all my
    files to the other format.

    If anybody out there is "up to speed" with AREXX, maybe we could
    start a personal dialog (outside the list).  I have ADPro, and
    AREXX but am unfamiliar with the program.  It would be nice to get
    over the learning curve more quickly by cooresponding with someone who
    is familiar.


    I also have another concern.  My question is partly basic theory
    and partly understanding Imagine.  Bear with me.

    Just to help my understanding...

    I noticed that there are a number of different formats that I can
    save my images as; and a number of resolutions as well.  I've read
    that it is faster to render to 24bit and then covert the files to
    another format if needed (currently I don't have the means to
    display 24bit).  In the project menu there are file formats that I
    can select and then there are rendering presets (color and
    resolutions) that I can choose.

    Is there a difference between resolution (amount of pixels)
    and amount of colors in terms of file format?  Is the file
    format only important in terms of number of colors that can
    be represented? Is the number of pixels that can be
    addressed governed completely by the display driver and has
    nothing to do with the file format at all?

    My confusion lies, I guess, in knowing just where I tell Imagine
    to render the frames 24bit.  Since I'm interested in animations,
    I'll be creating the animations with Imagine (to be able to lock
    the palette), and then converting them with ADPro.  Someone once
    said that ADPro had better algorithms for converting the frames to
    other resolutions.

    I've noticed that I set the file format to 24ILBM (I think that's
    right) and I set the rendering preset to HAM.  By the way,
    I loaded the files into ADPRo and the load requester told me I
    was loading a 24bit file.  I can then process the file into a HAM
    rendering in order to view it.  When I'm in the Imagine
    Project Editor and I "Show" the image that was generated, I get
    what I think is a HAM image on my screen.  Because I don't have
    the hardware to display 24bit, I'm wondering why I can see the
    image at all using Imagine if the image is indeed 24bit.
    Is Imagine converting the 24bit image to HAM in order for me to
    see it?  I'm a bit confused.

    I need some fundamental theory here.  If anyone has the time to
    help me out I would appreciate it.  Information about how color is
    saved in different formats and bit plane information (I can almost
    grasp the bit plane concept) is scattered around and I guess
    I still have some gaps in my understanding in order to tie it
    all together.  I'm not sure if my confusion is in basic computer
    graphics theory or Imagine theory, or both.

    Maybe there are others out there in netland who could use the
    information too.

    Thanks in advance,

    Dale


       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers                Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
                                     Internet:
                                     [e-mail]

                                    .






##

Subject: Re:  more on creating anims (fwd)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 92 10:55:22 -0700
From: [e-mail] (66291000)

[e-mail] asks about the difference between rendering
presets and file formats.

Dale, the short answer is that rendering presets only set the
resolution of the image (e.g. "HAM" = 320x200).  The file format
determines how Imagine saves the image (e.g. "ILBM24" = 24bit IFF).

Perhaps your confusion is really Imagine-based.  Just remember that
internally, Imagine _always_ renders in 24 bit color for maximum
image quality.  Then it converts that internal info into the file
format of your choice (whether 12- or 24-bit Impulse or IFF format).
When you use "Show", you were right that Imagine converts the image
into HAM for your viewing pleasure.

I'm not sure how much bit-plane, image file-format technical stuff
you want, but hopefully this short answer will help solve your
immediate difficulties.

    Good luck
    - Stefon


##

Subject: Re:  more on creating anims (fwd)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 92 18:18:48 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>[e-mail] asks about the difference between rendering
>presets and file formats.
>
>Dale, the short answer is that rendering presets only set the
>resolution of the image (e.g. "HAM" = 320x200).  The file format
>determines how Imagine saves the image (e.g. "ILBM24" = 24bit IFF).
>
>Perhaps your confusion is really Imagine-based.  Just remember that
>internally, Imagine _always_ renders in 24 bit color for maximum
>image quality.  Then it converts that internal info into the file
>format of your choice (whether 12- or 24-bit Impulse or IFF format).
>When you use "Show", you were right that Imagine converts the image
>into HAM for your viewing pleasure.
>
>I'm not sure how much bit-plane, image file-format technical stuff
>you want, but hopefully this short answer will help solve your
>immediate difficulties.
>
>    Good luck
>    - Stefon
>
>

    Let me just add that you can even render 24 bit stills and then
use imagine to make the anim.  What imagine will do is convert the 24
bit stills it has rendered into HAM anim.#### files.  Thus, you can keep
24 bit stills for single framing, but still render a test ham anim in
the same subproject.  (if you have the hard drive space!)

    Just remember:

    You can render any picture in any format in any resolution.  If
the picture is larger, than the physical screen coordinates, it will be
cropped....in ADPro if this happens you can scroll around.  Also, if you
are rendering 24 bit in imagine, it will automatically convert it to HAM
on the fly while it is showing it for you.

    If you had a firecracker, and the use firecracker button was on,
the image would be shown in 24 bit on you 24 bit monitor.

    Finally, if I were you, i would just render in HAM IFF mode
anyways and the 320x200 or 320x400 resolution.  Since you don't have a
24 bit device, and you are going to have to convert them by hand, it
would probably take a lot less time to have imagine just render it in
the format and res you want.

    Hope this helps.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: READ ME! (fwd)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 92 14:47:34 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca!linton (Michael Linton) writes:

> > I think that HAM animations should probably be allowed for
> > submission purposes and judging.  From there, the winning
> > animations should be   re-rendered in 24-bit and sent out to tape
> > for final disposition.     The single framing would have to be
> > setup by Impulse finally I        imagine.
>
> I agree.  But as I said in my last message, your looking at a heck of a lot
> of floppies.  The anim I was thinking of entering, will be close to 1200
> frames  when completed.  Even on an '030 that'll take a LONG time to render,
> not to mention eat up what little space I have left on my HD.  And as I said
> before, what about all the 68000 users out there?  Their certianly not going
> to be able to enter, if they have to re-render their entire anim in 24bit.
> I agree with you as far as the images contest goes, 24bit all the way, but
> the animation contest... No.

Hmm...I never said the originator of the animation would have to
re-render the animation.  There would probably be a way to get the
frames rendered via either multiple machines or through some other
process that could probably be taken care of by Impulse.  If your
anim was a winner, it would be worthwhile to figure out a
cost-effective way to re-render it in 24bits.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
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    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


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Subject: Re: READ ME!
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 09:49:21 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Paul Johnson)

> 1. Would you be interested in participating in an Imagine competition?
    Yes I would
> 2. If there were bigger prizes (for instance...a Firecracker or two) would you
>     be willing to pay a minimal enterance fee (for example $5 USA).
    Yes, depending upon the prizes available at lower levels.
> 3. Would you be more willing to pay this minimal enterence fee if you were
>     guarenteed a prize for just entering? This guarenteed prize may be someth ng
>     on the order of a disk of Imagine Objects  or Textures, from Impulse?
    Yes.
> 4. Would you prefer a contest for Objects, Images, Animations or 3 seperate
>      categories? In other words.. MANY prizes for ONE category, or a couple
>      for SEVERAL categories?
    Separate categories, prizes for every category. How about a grand prize
for best of show?
> 5.  Should the prizes be in a pool and be selected by the winners? Or should
>      each position have an assigned prize that the winner could sell if he/she
>      already had that product?
    I understand the concern, many of us already have Steve's book for
example and if the contest deadline is in the Fall many of us will already have
the Essence Textures. Why not try to have alternative, equally valued prizes at
each lower level. The higher level prizes (aka Firecracker) could easily be sold
(as maybe some of the others to other people on the list).
>

> The contest will be judged solely by employees of Impulse.
    It would be nice to understand the judging criteria by category.
> The dates , rules and prizes of this contest are up for discussion
    Any time for me.
> First and foremost...originality counts!
    Originality can cover a lot of sins. For objects do you judge them on
being an original 3d item (like abstract art) or a very good representation of
reality? Do you judge on the final rendered item (under what conditions?) or
on the 'wireframe' version? (OK, so I  am mostly a modeler).
    I would like to see all contest submissions be placed on hubcap during/
after the contest so we could all see for ourselves. Also, would be very help-
ful to have author description of how the object/image/anim was created.
> [e-mail]

PAJ


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Subject: Re:  more on creating anims (fwd)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 10:33:10 MDT
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

>
>     Finally, if I were you, i would just render in HAM IFF mode
> anyways and the 320x200 or 320x400 resolution.  Since you don't have a
> 24 bit device, and you are going to have to convert them by hand, it
> would probably take a lot less time to have imagine just render it in
> the format and res you want.
>
     I find that the quality of the same image when converted
down from 24-bit to HAM is amazingly greater than an Imagine rendered HAM.
Unless you just don't have the disk space, I recommend always going to 24-bit
for your final renderings and then converting down.

    Chris



##

Subject: Re: READ ME! (fwd)
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 92 11:30:10 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

-> There would probably be a way to get the frames rendered via
-> either multiple machines or through some other process that could
-> probably be taken care of by Impulse.  If your anim was a winner,
-> it would be worthwhile to figure out a cost-effective way to re-
-> render it in 24bits.

Well...  Like I said, the only way Impulse could take care of the
re-rendering, would be to take that persons Stage file, and objects etc.
And, like I said, me and others on here aren't willing to do that.  Unless,
Impulse wants to give me an '040 equipted 2000 or something, with a 210 meg
HD, and at least 10 megs of RAM, just to re-render my anim on. ;)  TTYSS.



--
[e-mail] (Michael Linton)
The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



##

Subject: Mass media
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 15:38:25 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

    Greetings,

    As I create more animations I am quickly finding... I need
    more memory in the worst way; both RAM and mass storage.
    I'm saving my pennies until I decide what to get.  Currently I
    only have 5 megs and a 50M HD.  It gets eatten up fast.

    RAM QUESTIONS...
    Is RAM easy to install?  Are there different types of chips I
    need to think about?  How do I determine how much RAM I
    can install? Does the operating system automatically recognize
    it once it's there or do I need to modify the startup script?

    MASS STORAGE
    Are removeable hard drives the way to go?  Which is the best (most
    reliable)?  Which device would give me the most memory/cost
    performace?  Optical floppies?

    I'm sure there are lots of opinions out there.  I'd like to hear a
    few.

    Thanks



       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers                Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
                                     Internet:
                                     [e-mail]

                                    .






##

Subject: Re:  more on creating anims (fwd)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 16:57:37 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>>
>>     Finally, if I were you, i would just render in HAM IFF mode
>> anyways and the 320x200 or 320x400 resolution.  Since you don't have a
>> 24 bit device, and you are going to have to convert them by hand, it
>> would probably take a lot less time to have imagine just render it in
>> the format and res you want.
>>
>     I find that the quality of the same image when converted
>down from 24-bit to HAM is amazingly greater than an Imagine rendered HAM.
>Unless you just don't have the disk space, I recommend always going to 24-bit
>for your final renderings and then converting down.
>
>    Chris
>
>
>

    Zappo.  I never really tried to compare!  I'll have to try
rendering an anim in 24 bit and converting it.  Thanks for the tip!

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]



##

Subject: 24bit->HAM
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 16:05:36 -0400
From: david r watters <[e-mail]>

>         I find that the quality of the same image when converted
down from 24-bit to HAM is amazingly greater than an Imagine rendered HAM.
>Unless you just don't have the disk space, I recommend always going to 24-bit
>for your final renderings and then converting down.
>        Chris

What are you converting to HAM with.  There are a lot of factors that my
help you converted pic look a lot better than an Imagine HAM pic.  A different
dithering algorithm for example.  It may be that what ever you are using
(ADpro for example) just does a better job of the main conversion, ie.
a more optimized palette for the HAM screen.)

David
Watters

ps. Watching the arguments over the contest are quickly making it unattractive.
I suggest if you want to suggest a certain format, post with your ideas and
then leave it at that.  Don't argue with someone else's ideas.  In the end the
person who is running the contest gets to decide and will surely consider all
the opinions he has read.


##

Subject: MMR+Supra's HD
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1992 21:25:23 -0500
From: Steven Joseph Chmura <[e-mail]>

I am thinking about getting the memory World special MMR with 2megs
of 32bit ram.  The Price is incredible.  I have, however, heard that
the Supra Harddrives do not work with the MMR.  Is this true?  Is anyone
unsing a 500RX with series III software with their MMR?  Any help
would be apreciated.  I cannot stand this 68000 anylonger.


##

Subject: Imagine 1.0
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 23:41:27 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Guy Botero)

How much does it cost to upgrade to 2.0?  I'm considering buying a copy
of 1.0 and wonder how long I'd have to wait to upgrade.  I've seen this
program from a distance and it looks worthwhile...  Suggestions?


##

Subject: fractal clouds
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 10:20:32 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Steve Koren)

Anyone have any nifty ideas for generating Scenery-Animator style
fractal clouds in Imagine?  Would bringing in a bitmap generated from
SA2 be the best route, or is there something better which could be
done?  Ideally, I'd like actual 3D clouds, not 2D ones from an
imported bitmap.

   - steve


##

Subject: STUFF
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 92 1:14:16 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

    Fellow Imagineers,


    Regarding 24bit->HAM conversions, I use ImageMaster. I have ADPro and
ImageMaster both, and I find that IM is far superior, especially in the hires
interlace resolutions with only 16 colors. I feel that ADPro's interface is
far more elegant and superior, and thier program is very polished. However,
IM's features and application of those features far exceeds those of ADPro's.

    Regarding the contest, I have a few questions. First of all, could
some kind soul with a couple of extra minutes between renderings mail me a
copy of the contest. My mailer daemon must have had it for lunch.
    Second, although this may be in the rules, I am wondering what are
the limitations for this contest in terms of software used. We can
obviuosly use brushmaps, backgrounds, etc., but can we touch-up the images
after we have them rendered? Can we combine animations from other programs
as long as Imagine was used for more than 60% of it? There are many effects I
add to my animations that Imagine does not support.

    Lastly, does anyone here have any news about Real 3D? I have read
many discussions about Caligari, Lightwave, Animation Journeyman, and Sculpt
programs I know well...but I know very little about Real 3D. The reviews in
magazines are always outdated and so is both demos I have. I have heard some
amazing things about this program that I want confirmed from some users on
this mailing list or other reliable sources.

    Thank you.

Juan Trevino
[e-mail]



##

Subject: 24bit->HAM
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 92 09:30:39 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

david r watters <rutgers!cis.ohio-state.edu!watters> writes:

> ps. Watching the arguments over the contest are quickly making it unattractiv
> I suggest if you want to suggest a certain format, post with your ideas and
> then leave it at that.  Don't argue with someone else's ideas.  In the end th
> person who is running the contest gets to decide and will surely consider all
> the opinions he has read.

Hmm..it didn't seem like arguing to me.  It seemed more like
discussion on the subject.  I thought that is what this list was for.
<grin>

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878